| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: In what ways do you benefit from KudoZ? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
|
|---|
R. Alex Jenkins 
Brazil
Local time: 13:30
Member (2006)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| Agree with Henry Hinds - Answering questions and Pro Points | Mar 12, 2008 |
A very interesting topic I feel.
I personally Love / Hate Kudoz all at the same time. I'm sure that many of you agree?
However, there are so many edges to the Kudoz point sword that it's seems foolish to try and pinpoint what the individual motives actually are for using the system, as everyone has their own reasons. The fact is, the Kudoz system works; it drives web traffic and interest to Proz and, as a paying member, that's a good thing because it means getting more exposur... See more A very interesting topic I feel.
I personally Love / Hate Kudoz all at the same time. I'm sure that many of you agree?
However, there are so many edges to the Kudoz point sword that it's seems foolish to try and pinpoint what the individual motives actually are for using the system, as everyone has their own reasons. The fact is, the Kudoz system works; it drives web traffic and interest to Proz and, as a paying member, that's a good thing because it means getting more exposure for our efforts. Has anyone ever searched for an answer to a question on Google and found the first page of results full of the very same Kudoz question? Sure you have, that Google bot is fast! It's a good thing .
However (oh, I do like a bit of 'howevering'), there are some very good points mentioned above by Kim and Lexical. Let me add my own gripes at this juncture:
In my own language pair there has been, up until recently, a very good example of one translator, without the necessary experience to do a good job, asking on average about 10-20 questions per week, awarding roughly 80-90% of all the Kudoz points to the same Answerer - over the space of a year about 2000 Kudoz Pro points. I've no idea if anything untoward has been indeed happening in the background, but it does show a HUGE loophole in the Kudoz points system that so many points can be awarded simply between two people logged in to two different IP address computers.
The other gripe I have is the systematic awarding of points to either a blatantly wrong answer and thus clogging up the KOG system with junk, or simply awarding points to someone with a nice picture or, even worse, to your mates. Have you ever had 10+ agrees and then seen the Kudoz points awarded to another answer? Sure you have, it's a common occurrence; the Asker gives the points to a friend of colleague - kind of quaint, but bad for the Glossaries.
Kudoz is massively flawed, but it's hugely popular and successful.
I wonder if it's worth talking about how Kudoz could be improved and how it could be made equal to some of the best forums on the Internet? The IT coding forums, for example.
[Edited at 2008-03-12 22:25] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Agree with Kim too | Mar 13, 2008 |
I have also noticed that a lot of experienced translators are 'leaving' or not participating as actively as before.
| | | | | Saddening - but probably true | Mar 13, 2008 |
Hullo Prozians,
I'm saddened by all the adverse comments about the Kudoz system, but doubtless they're true. I suppose there must be some "Kudoz tarts" or "points chasers" or lazy beginners out there.
However, I personally find the Kudoz glossaries an enormous help - used with *discretion*, of course, and also have received extremely useful answers to the Kudoz questions I've asked when a mystery expression crops up that is outside my normal field, as in a book on farm animals that ... See more Hullo Prozians,
I'm saddened by all the adverse comments about the Kudoz system, but doubtless they're true. I suppose there must be some "Kudoz tarts" or "points chasers" or lazy beginners out there.
However, I personally find the Kudoz glossaries an enormous help - used with *discretion*, of course, and also have received extremely useful answers to the Kudoz questions I've asked when a mystery expression crops up that is outside my normal field, as in a book on farm animals that I'm translating at the moment. I've also enjoyed answering questions *when I have time*. That's the point. Most of the time I'm far too busy working to be a "Kudoz tart", and surely that must apply to many busy translators. The fact that my Kudoz points total is modest reflects - I hope - the fact that I'm busy, not that I'm too thick to know the answer ...
I do wish it were possible to split the points - one sometimes feels that two answerers deserve the points equally when a debate about an expression ensues - but those are the Kudoz rules.
Please don't drop the Kudoz system!
Regards,
Jenny. ▲ Collapse
| | | | CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 18:30
French to English
+ ...
| Well said, Kim...... | Mar 13, 2008 |
... and, for the record, I don't think I benefit much from KudoZ at all but I do hope others benefit from my input - I answer questions as a mental challenge and to break the monotony of the working day.
It was however so much more fun when we could brainstorm and arrive jointly at a solution by each adding our contributions rather than the free-for-all many pairs have now become.
Doing other people's translations for free (and meanwhile they get paid) is also a debtabl... See more ... and, for the record, I don't think I benefit much from KudoZ at all but I do hope others benefit from my input - I answer questions as a mental challenge and to break the monotony of the working day.
It was however so much more fun when we could brainstorm and arrive jointly at a solution by each adding our contributions rather than the free-for-all many pairs have now become.
Doing other people's translations for free (and meanwhile they get paid) is also a debtable exercise.
Suggestions on how to change things have often been made. Nothing has happened. It never will. Just remember they don't run the site as a charity for translators and you'll see which way the wind blows. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| I'm immensely grateful for the help I get | Mar 13, 2008 |
Sometimes just knowing that I have the support of colleagues who are available to help me puts me sufficiently at ease that the translation reveals itself without having to post a question.
On the answering end, the strong opinions and unwise choices of headstrong amateurs can sometimes grate on the nerves, but for the most part it's just plain fun. It's exhilarating when a good discussion gets going.
| | | | B D Finch
France
Local time: 18:30
French to English
+ ...
| Agree with Kim & Lexical | Mar 13, 2008 |
I find Kudoz extremely valuable and enjoy the cyberspace community of people helping each other, even the opportunity for some silliness and joking (cows etc.). However, this is undermined by the time-wasting and annoying interventions from answerers who are not serious translators between the languages in question and who are just after points. Lazy and unprofessional askers are also a problem and I prefer to ignore questions from people who clearly don't know enough to be translating at all.... See more I find Kudoz extremely valuable and enjoy the cyberspace community of people helping each other, even the opportunity for some silliness and joking (cows etc.). However, this is undermined by the time-wasting and annoying interventions from answerers who are not serious translators between the languages in question and who are just after points. Lazy and unprofessional askers are also a problem and I prefer to ignore questions from people who clearly don't know enough to be translating at all. Why should I help them work in the profession if their presence undermines our claim to be professionals and damages all serious translators?
There has also been some recent bitching about points and who is entitled to what. Points add a competitive edge which is enjoyable if it is not taken too seriously.
I think that Kudoz needs to get more serious about maintaining professionalism and quality of questions and responses, but also to lighten up about the competitive side of Kudoz points. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Marijke wrote:
I have also noticed that a lot of experienced translators are 'leaving' or not participating as actively as before.
Same here
| | | | | Agree with Kim, Lexical, CMJ and others. | Mar 13, 2008 |
I also remember the days when Kudoz was a wonderful experience for all concerned. Just reading the discussions and debates was often fascinating. If someone asked a term that was found by opening any dictionary, that question was met with a barrage of "this is a site for pro translators, you can find this in your dictionary", not with a rush of eager KudoZ pointZ hunters copy/pasting from their own dicos as fast as they can. Which is the current situation.
And..... if you bothered helping,... See more I also remember the days when Kudoz was a wonderful experience for all concerned. Just reading the discussions and debates was often fascinating. If someone asked a term that was found by opening any dictionary, that question was met with a barrage of "this is a site for pro translators, you can find this in your dictionary", not with a rush of eager KudoZ pointZ hunters copy/pasting from their own dicos as fast as they can. Which is the current situation.
And..... if you bothered helping, all your pointZ counted. Not just the so-called "pro" points like today. Which are often meaningless, since many "pro" points are awarded for questions that no real "pro" would ever have to ask.
Words like professionalism and quality are now viewed as 'elitist' and no longer have any place in the Kudoz arena. Using them will just incur the wrath of those in charge.
Imo, this is why "a lot of experienced translators are 'leaving' or not participating as before". ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:30
French to English
+ ...
| Too quick to criticise... | Mar 13, 2008 |
I think a lot of translators are too quick to criticise what is, in essence, an extremely good system. Of course it can be abused (and frequently is), but surely we are all able to sift through those questions which are too obvious/should never have been asked in the first place or those answerers who obviously have no idea what they're talking about? I have my own sifting system for disregarding questions from certain heavy-duty askers, particularly those who can't be bothered to supply any con... See more I think a lot of translators are too quick to criticise what is, in essence, an extremely good system. Of course it can be abused (and frequently is), but surely we are all able to sift through those questions which are too obvious/should never have been asked in the first place or those answerers who obviously have no idea what they're talking about? I have my own sifting system for disregarding questions from certain heavy-duty askers, particularly those who can't be bothered to supply any context or suggest their own thoughts/concerns about their queried term. On the whole, however, I still think it's an opportunity for intellectual exchanges and has certainly provided me with a huge amount of invaluable help.
What does annoy me, however, is when people are too quick to jump in and criticise others. Just because we are experts in a certain field does not mean that everyone has the same depth of knowledge and what might be obvious to one person, will not to another. Same with the "pro"/"non-pro" distinction - it can be a fine line. I had a case recently when someone sent me an e-mail asking why I'd answered a question when it was "obviously" identical to the previous question and should have been barred. In actual fact the question was different, though only by a couple of characters, and did indeed merit a different answer. Whilst I don't mind people e-mailing me about KudoZ issues, I do think that people get so worked up about perceived abuses of the system, that they forget to exercise a sense of relativity. By all means, let inexperienced translators use the system, but if they are obviously abusing the system, just ignore them or filter them out. Equally, if you feel that someone is using the system to translate an entire text, don't answer! ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Cutler
Spain
Local time: 18:30
Spanish to English
+ ...
| We never know... | Mar 13, 2008 |
Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:
On the answering end, the strong opinions and unwise choices of headstrong amateurs can sometimes grate on the nerves, but for the most part it's just plain fun. It's exhilarating when a good discussion gets going.
If it's any consolation, this morning I came across an answer you gave to a Kudoz question several months ago. It wasn't chosen as the "correct" answer, but in my case it fit my needs perfectly, so I used it. Thanks for being willing to answer and be helpful.
| | | | GeorginaW (X)
Germany
Local time: 18:30
German to English
I've only been a member for a week, but I dread to think how many hours I've spent scurrying through the net in search of a helpful answer for someone - especially after seeing some other "helpful" offerings. Yesterday evening I shot off at a tangent, finding out about cigars (learned a lot!) for someone. But I ought to have been doing something more lucrative, i.e. translating.
I notice that it's fairly impossible to get points anyway - although my German is excellent (Ger-Eng). So I will... See more I've only been a member for a week, but I dread to think how many hours I've spent scurrying through the net in search of a helpful answer for someone - especially after seeing some other "helpful" offerings. Yesterday evening I shot off at a tangent, finding out about cigars (learned a lot!) for someone. But I ought to have been doing something more lucrative, i.e. translating.
I notice that it's fairly impossible to get points anyway - although my German is excellent (Ger-Eng). So I will limit myself to a look in every morning and every evening - and enjoy a short exhilarating chase after some term or other before getting down to work! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Miranda Joubioux (X)
Local time: 18:30
French to English
| A great networking tool | Mar 13, 2008 |
Claire Cox wrote:
By all means, let inexperienced translators use the system, but if they are obviously abusing the system, just ignore them or filter them out. Equally, if you feel that someone is using the system to translate an entire text, don't answer!
I must admit I agree with Claire. I use KudoZ regularly (more than I ever thought I would) and I both ask and answer questions. It doesn't take long to work out who's who on KudoZ and it's easy to make your own judgments as to the reliability of the information, particularly if sources are provided. In addition to that, when asking questions there are options that allow you to choose professional translators, people working in a specific field and having the language as their mother tongue (has its limits, but still helps).
Sometimes, there are questions that are hastily answered and the wrong term gets chosen, but an intelligent translator will always check the information and the sources before using the term anyway and should be able to make his/her own decision.
Very often, I look for a term and find an entry that will provide me with the answer in relation to my specific context, even if it is not the chosen answer. So for that alone, it definitely serves its purpose. A translator who blindly uses terms from KudoZ without checking will soon find that the poor quality of their work has been noticed and they won't last long. I'm certainly not afraid of that sort of competition.
I've never actually had any direct work from ProZ, so the points system is not particularly of interest in that respect, however, it does help you decide who are the people who regularly answer questions correctly and helps you sift the good from the bad. The leader board is very useful in that respect.
I must admit I have made some virtual friends through KudoZ, which is really wonderful and I am also aware of the people I would be willing to give work to.
For all these reasons and probably more, it's a great networking tool.
| | |
|
|
|
| All of the above and a few more... | Mar 13, 2008 |
Jon O wrote:
What about the option 'to show off and massage my ego'?
That's what lots of people seem to use it for.
That is definitely my approach. If all else fails, I try to give the best explanation for my answer... and I have collected a few disagrees when I have been totally off course! As Neilmac says, it is sometimes healthy to be taken down a peg.
It is also better to find out on KudoZ when you're wrong than to have a client complain. It is a very good exercise in many ways.
And here is Mats Wiman's view from 2003, but still highly relevant, which everyone has probably at least heard of.
http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/509/1/Confessions-of-a-
Well, my community mercifully is still small and fairly well behaved, although not all askers are good at giving enough context... Scandinavian humour helps to make criticism acceptable, and most of us have large enough egos to be able to take it anyway. But personal remarks are not allowed, of course, and there are some hopeless questions and askers. Everyone has to learn...
Like Mats, I love the challenge, and the chance to riffle through dictionaries and reference books. Otherwise I might forget what I have on my shelves... I collect them at book sales and second-hand bookshops as well as keeping an eye on the latest offers.
KudoZ at its best is a fantastic system, and I have been so grateful for answers many times. Points grabbers on the opposite side of the globe can be a real help on occasions. What looks easy to some people can be an insurmountable problem at two in the morning, six hours before deadline!
Let's all try to keep it professional, but bear with the flaws - nothing in this world is perfect!
| | | | Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 10:30
English to Spanish
+ ...
In memoriam | Agree with Kim | Mar 13, 2008 |
I identify with what Kim is saying too. I wish there were ways to teach people to be better translators and to develop their own resources and use them. It is discouraging to see people trying to do work they are obviously unqualified to do. It is even more discouraging to see people who do not even have the language knowledge to be doing what they are trying to do.
The bright spot is that there are also come fine professionals out there, as well as people who are unexperienced but ... See more I identify with what Kim is saying too. I wish there were ways to teach people to be better translators and to develop their own resources and use them. It is discouraging to see people trying to do work they are obviously unqualified to do. It is even more discouraging to see people who do not even have the language knowledge to be doing what they are trying to do.
The bright spot is that there are also come fine professionals out there, as well as people who are unexperienced but ready to learn. We cannot really help everyone who comes along, we can only hope to help some.
The image of our profession suffers when there are so many people out there who are tarnishing it. All we can do is try. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Poll: In what ways do you benefit from KudoZ? | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
