How to translate anglosisms into an english translation
Thread poster: gingerbread
gingerbread
English
Mar 15, 2007

Hi there.
I am translating a letter, written by the Portuguese writer Eça de Queirós from Portuguese into English. Within the letter there are a number of English and French words in the text such as this:

Se V. com efeito quisesse tomar o bastão de policeman e percorrer a cidade literária, dando um shakehands de estima ao obreiro honesto, e catrafilando, por entre cacetadas, o desordeiro?... Qu’en dites vous?
The words policeman and genderme (French for police i believe) are used frequently while surrounded with Portuguese text. It is a translation piece we have to do for university and obviously this has been chosen to bring to light the dilemmas and problems of translating. I was wondering if anyone has had a similar experience as this one and if so how they tackled the problem?


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Jorge Freire  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:58
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Do not translate Mar 15, 2007

Normaly you use the foreign word and in your case I would write a footnote saying «in English in the original» or «in French in the original». You can write the original word in italics as well...

[Edited at 2007-03-15 23:42]

[Edited at 2007-03-15 23:43]


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Ivana de Sousa Santos  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:58
French to Portuguese
+ ...
What I would do Mar 15, 2007

I would maintain the French words and as for the English ones I would insert a footnote stating that the author wrote that word in English in the original text.

I hope it helps. :0)


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Ivana de Sousa Santos  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:58
French to Portuguese
+ ...
Em sintonia, Jorge Mar 15, 2007



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Jorge Freire  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:58
English to Portuguese
+ ...
E exactamente ao mesmo tempo Mar 15, 2007

Ivana de Sousa Santos wrote:



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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:58
Spanish to English
+ ...
a 2nd approach Mar 16, 2007

gingerbread wrote:

Hi there.
I am translating a letter, written by the Portuguese writer Eça de Queirós from Portuguese into English. Within the letter there are a number of English and French words in the text such as this:

Se V. com efeito quisesse tomar o bastão de policeman e percorrer a cidade literária, dando um shakehands de estima ao obreiro honesto, e catrafilando, por entre cacetadas, o desordeiro?... Qu’en dites vous?
The words policeman and genderme (French for police i believe) are used frequently while surrounded with Portuguese text. It is a translation piece we have to do for university and obviously this has been chosen to bring to light the dilemmas and problems of translating. I was wondering if anyone has had a similar experience as this one and if so how they tackled the problem?


Although I agree with the other posters, a second approach is

PT + en + fr
-->
EN + pt + fr

That is, what is EN in the source becomes PT in the target (and the FR is left the same)

My arguments in favour of this alternative:

By leaving in the FR words and leaving the EN words as is, you create an imbalance that doesn't exist in the original

And of course, it creates a similar effect in teh target, which is completely lost when you put footnotes.

Whether or not the reader will understand the PT is largely beside the point, as not all readers understand all languages. And this was not a consideration in Queirós' letter.

I don't propose one alternative over the other, but would very carefully take into account the writer, his background and the background to the letter. I seem to remember that Queirós lived some time in both England and France, so the use of THREE languages would be an innate part of his style.

[Edited at 2007-03-16 09:20]


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Ivana de Sousa Santos  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:58
French to Portuguese
+ ...
Sorry, but I don't agree Mar 16, 2007

Lia Fail wrote:a second approach is

PT + en + fr
-->
EN + pt + fr

That is, what is EN in the source becomes PT in the target (and the FR is left the same)

My arguments in favour of this alternative:

By leaving in the FR words and leaving the EN words as is, you create an imbalance that doesn't exist in the original

And of course, it creates a similar effect in teh target, which is completely lost when you put footnotes.


Queirós's style will be lost if you do this. In my opinion, it's better to explain that it was in English, so that the reader is aware of the author's style. And Queirós has such a beautiful, particular style.... (My favourite author).


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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:58
Spanish to English
+ ...
Note that ........ Mar 16, 2007

Ivana de Sousa Santos wrote:

Lia Fail wrote:a second approach is

PT + en + fr
-->
EN + pt + fr

That is, what is EN in the source becomes PT in the target (and the FR is left the same)

My arguments in favour of this alternative:

By leaving in the FR words and leaving the EN words as is, you create an imbalance that doesn't exist in the original

And of course, it creates a similar effect in teh target, which is completely lost when you put footnotes.


Queirós's style will be lost if you do this. In my opinion, it's better to explain that it was in English, so that the reader is aware of the author's style. And Queirós has such a beautiful, particular style.... (My favourite author).


..... I suggested this as an alternative. Translation is about choices, and each choice implies a loss of some kind.... I proposed this solution becuase I think the poster would be interested in hearing about this alternative approach:-) ...


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Ivana de Sousa Santos  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:58
French to Portuguese
+ ...
Sure, Lia Mar 16, 2007

At the end, every translator does what s/he thinks best.

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Clara Duarte  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:58
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Italics and footnote Mar 18, 2007

I agree with Jorge and Ivana.

You would be leaving out a very important and distinctive feature of both culture and literature of the 19th century, which is precisely the use of anglicisms and borrowing words from French into Portuguese.


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Katarina Peters  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 08:58
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
anglicisms and "francicisms" Mar 18, 2007

I fully agree with Ivana, Jorge and Clara!

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