MBA-preferred: Education as a commodity Thread poster: Williamson
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Williamson 
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:43
Flemish to English
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When browsing through management programmes on the market, I find Masters in Science of Management which cost 525 euros and MBA's which cost anything between 20.000-80.000 euros.
The core-courses of these programmes are the same: math, stat, marketing, accounting, corp finance,... but the price-tag differs. Why does an MBA from a(n Ivy-Ligue) university bears a higher price-tag tag than say an degree of DipKfm. (DiplomKaufmann). Aren't business schools and everything that has to do with t... See more When browsing through management programmes on the market, I find Masters in Science of Management which cost 525 euros and MBA's which cost anything between 20.000-80.000 euros.
The core-courses of these programmes are the same: math, stat, marketing, accounting, corp finance,... but the price-tag differs. Why does an MBA from a(n Ivy-Ligue) university bears a higher price-tag tag than say an degree of DipKfm. (DiplomKaufmann). Aren't business schools and everything that has to do with them (Toelf, Gmat and the Gmac organisation), the rankings in Business-week a business on their own?
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With regard to interpreter training, I also find differences (albeit not of the order of the business schools): ex. ISIT costs 14.000 euro and ESIT 625 euro,
ETI some 5000 (for two years), LaLaguna 7000 and London Westminster £6500 + living expenses, Liverpool and Bath £4000. The Belgian T&I schools' registration fees vary from anything between 650 euros and 1200 euros.
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In all those schools, you are taught exactly the same: simultaneous and consecutive interpreting. If you pass, you get a return on investment, if you don't you loose £12000 in the worst case scenario which is the equivalent of a new car.
The winner takes it all: 8 minutes of consecutive decide whether or not your investment of time and money will give an R.O.I. (return on investment).
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Hence my question: should education be a commidity.What makes the reputation of a business-school or an interpreter's training. Basically they all sell/teach the same content. Who would be prepared to gamble and invest say 40000 euros in a business-school or £12.000 in the London interpreter's training.
[Edited at 2007-09-13 14:02] ▲ Collapse
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It's all perception, isn't it? And the perpetuation of that perception.
You buy the prestige, the cache. You buy into associating with people who also believe that whatever institution it is is prestigious. You buy into that institution's connections. You buy into the future employer who will also believe that Oxford or Cambridge is better than Slough Catering College and picks you over the poor sod who went there although SCC may offer exactly the same skills.
The perf... See more It's all perception, isn't it? And the perpetuation of that perception.
You buy the prestige, the cache. You buy into associating with people who also believe that whatever institution it is is prestigious. You buy into that institution's connections. You buy into the future employer who will also believe that Oxford or Cambridge is better than Slough Catering College and picks you over the poor sod who went there although SCC may offer exactly the same skills.
The perfume from Tesco and Chanel essentially do the same thing, but what are you doing when you choose the Chanel? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Özden Arıkan
Germany
Local time: 08:43
Member
English to Turkish
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| Moved the topic... | Sep 13, 2007 |
...to Professional Development forum.
| | | | | Masters and German Diplom are not equivalent | Sep 13, 2007 |
I have had this discussion many times over but in this case you aren't comparing apples with apples - even if the Germans think they are the same. You don't get a masters after studying for 4 years except at Oxbridge.
You can do an MBA at a minor UK university for a few thousand pounds or of course go to an Ivy League college. What's the difference? The people looking to recruit you at the end. The major management consultancies don't hang around minor UK colleges looking for their latest ... See more I have had this discussion many times over but in this case you aren't comparing apples with apples - even if the Germans think they are the same. You don't get a masters after studying for 4 years except at Oxbridge.
You can do an MBA at a minor UK university for a few thousand pounds or of course go to an Ivy League college. What's the difference? The people looking to recruit you at the end. The major management consultancies don't hang around minor UK colleges looking for their latest recruits. On the other hand, do you want to work for them? As soon as I finished my Bachelors/Diplom my mum tried to persuade me to go straight on to a masters - I told her "it's time to earn some money" and I haven't found the need to do one yet. I have looked at various translation masters courses but a) they are not cheap and b) what benefit would it have? I have the CIL Diploma and have built up my business just fine.
Or did you have a particular reason for looking at Masters courses, Williamson?
Gillian ▲ Collapse
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RobinB
United States
Local time: 01:43
German to English
| Just like translation, innit | Sep 13, 2007 |
You can get a translation for EUR 0.03 per word and a translation of exactly the same text for EUR 0.30 per word. It's exactly the same source text, translated in each case by a human translator using MS Word (and possibly the same CAT tool).
So why do some customers prefer to pay EUR 0.30 per word for their translation, while others dive straight for the EUR 0.03/word offer?
The orthodoxy says that all translators are equal (we certainly don't want to admit that the va... See more You can get a translation for EUR 0.03 per word and a translation of exactly the same text for EUR 0.30 per word. It's exactly the same source text, translated in each case by a human translator using MS Word (and possibly the same CAT tool).
So why do some customers prefer to pay EUR 0.30 per word for their translation, while others dive straight for the EUR 0.03/word offer?
The orthodoxy says that all translators are equal (we certainly don't want to admit that the vast majority of translators, including here on ProZ, are crap, do we?), so surely there's no logical reason for the disparity in prices.
Translations are a commodity, just like education, right?
Robin
PS: Gillian's right about the difference between an MBA and a German Dipl-Kfm. (which is being phased out in any case). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 00:43
English to Spanish
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In memoriam
...walk with the turkeys or fly with the eagles. Pay your money and take your choice.
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:43
Flemish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | No further aspirations | Sep 14, 2007 |
No, at the moment I do not have any reason for looking at Masters courses. In order to bridge the gap between being a linguist (M.A.translation) and specialist knowledge, I've attended a year of business courses like math, stat, general economics,management theory (from Taylor to JIT and Kanban) and practical excercises (interest calculation, linear programming, networks), hrm, accounting (from the invoice to ratio-calculation), corp.finance and investment tools and all this at a price-tag of �... See more No, at the moment I do not have any reason for looking at Masters courses. In order to bridge the gap between being a linguist (M.A.translation) and specialist knowledge, I've attended a year of business courses like math, stat, general economics,management theory (from Taylor to JIT and Kanban) and practical excercises (interest calculation, linear programming, networks), hrm, accounting (from the invoice to ratio-calculation), corp.finance and investment tools and all this at a price-tag of €525.
No more courses for me this year. Just assimilate the basic concepts of those courses which are related to money (finance and investment) and use them for my own sake (forex).
[Edited at 2007-09-14 07:55] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Less steep learning curve | Sep 18, 2007 |
I agree with the comments above. Specifically regarding translation degrees - Although there are many ways to get into translation, I shelled out the $$$ and got my master's at MIIS.
I feel it had a lot of benefits: excellent professors who were all active practitioners (and therefore could come in the next day and tell us about an actual job they did the day before), the aforementioned networking opportunities, the early focus on technology (this was 10 years ago). Their curriculu... See more I agree with the comments above. Specifically regarding translation degrees - Although there are many ways to get into translation, I shelled out the $$$ and got my master's at MIIS.
I feel it had a lot of benefits: excellent professors who were all active practitioners (and therefore could come in the next day and tell us about an actual job they did the day before), the aforementioned networking opportunities, the early focus on technology (this was 10 years ago). Their curriculum really is different and more practical in nature than what other translation schools offer, as I heard from other translation students I met after graduation. Not to mention the name recognition. Without experience I was able to get a job starting out that would have been difficult to get otherwise. When I started freelancing, I believe the MIIS name on my resume also provided me with a competitive advantage and enabled me to by-pass all of the lower paying customers entirely. Essentially, that degree considerably lowered the learning curve I had starting out in the profession.
I guess in the US we're used to paying for education, so it didn't seem like a huge stretch to pay for my translation master's either (and it's not like we're spoiled for choices here in that field). Even state schools aren't cheap anymore, so being on 1/2 scholarship at a private uni is about the same as paying full tuition at a state uni. It's just a matter of figuring out what school will bring you the end result you want - that might be the cheap one, and it might be the expensive one. ▲ Collapse
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| Are you sure? | Feb 2, 2008 |
"With regard to interpreter training, I also find differences (albeit not of the order of the business schools): ex. ISIT costs 14.000 euro and ESIT 625 euro,
ETI some 5000 (for two years), LaLaguna 7000 and London Westminster £6500 + living expenses, Liverpool and Bath £4000. The Belgian T&I schools' registration fees vary from anything between 650 euros and 1200 euros."
ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THE PRICE AT ETI? I'M CURRENTLY A STUDENT IN THE TRANSLATION SECTION, AND WE... See more "With regard to interpreter training, I also find differences (albeit not of the order of the business schools): ex. ISIT costs 14.000 euro and ESIT 625 euro,
ETI some 5000 (for two years), LaLaguna 7000 and London Westminster £6500 + living expenses, Liverpool and Bath £4000. The Belgian T&I schools' registration fees vary from anything between 650 euros and 1200 euros."
ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THE PRICE AT ETI? I'M CURRENTLY A STUDENT IN THE TRANSLATION SECTION, AND WE PAY 1000 SWISS FRANCS PER YEAR. I JUST DID THE CALCULATION ONLINE, AND THE EQUIVALENT IN EUROS IS 623.15. NO TOO MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE THAN ESIT IT SEEMS. ALL TOGETHER, THAT WOULD BE 1246.30 euros. IT'S REALLY NOT THAT BAD OF A DEAL CONSIDERING WHAT YOU GET. I'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT IN ANOTHER POST. TAKE CARE! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:43
Flemish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Calculation of 2004 | Feb 2, 2008 |
Is that per semester? When I took the admission test, I calculated how much a year at ETI at the interpreting section would cost PER ANNUM. In 2004, that was 2500. It may be that foreigners have to pay more than swiss citizens. ESIT is a part of the Sorbonne and that is a French state-subsidised univeristy.
[Edited at 2008-02-02 15:07]
| | | | | Foreigner living in Switzerland | Feb 3, 2008 |
No, the tuition is the same for foreigners and Swiss students. I am far from Swiss and pay 500 CHF per semester which comes to 1000 CHF per year. I just checked the exchange rate online, and it's currently 620.14 euros per year.
-Peace everyone
P.S. I want to apologize for writing my other posts in all caps because the forum moderator politely reminded me that this is equivalent to shouting. Honestly, I didn't know, and I hope I didn't give anyone that impression.
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