Christine Andersen Denmark Local time: 22:51 Member (2003) Danish to English + ...
Thanks for this discussion and food for thought
Jul 17, 2011
Samuel Murray wrote:
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As for the wiki, I think that it should say that the term means different things to different people, and then discuss the various meanings.
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The problem with the word "copy edit" and "proof reading" is that they contain words that have no meaning to the general public, namely "copy" (jargon for written text) and "proof" (jargon for visual text). Another problem is that the job typesetter has fallen away, so either the copy editor or the proofreader (or even the translator) has to do it.
Another problem with the word "edit" is that editing a translation is a different from from editing a text that will be used in the language that it was originally written.
One solution to the wiki problem may be to have a very short page for "proofreading", that explains that there are many uses for the term, and then create separate pages for those uses and choose unique words for them, and then simply link to them from the proofreading page.
I think this is the answer.
Whole books have been written on this topic, and there is probably no simple definition that everyone acepts.
I still think that it is slightly academic, and take the pragmatic view that it will always be necessary to agree with the client from job to job what is to be done.
On the other hand, agreeing with the client requires words and definitions one way or another. So pointing out in the Wiki that proofreading means different things to different people is a warning.
We can hope that it will also provide useful material for 'educating clients' about what is actually being done, and for explaining why a text was edited as it was.
Good luck in editing the wiki!
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Laurie Price Spain Member (2008) Spanish to English + ...
Great idea about the wiki, Samuel
Jul 19, 2011
Completely optimum solution, especially the part about explaining some of the perceived differences. Kudos!
[Edited at 2011-07-19 01:07 GMT]
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It's similar to the difference between washing a car and fixing a car.
Sep 22, 2011
Suzan Hamer wrote: I think people, especially clients, must be aware that editing and proofreading are two different tasks. To me, it's similar to the difference between washing a car and fixing a car.
Thank you for your wise words, Suzan. I have enjoyed reading this discussion and I think it is also important to mention that the differences in proof-reading and editing are quite clearly outlined in DIN EN 15038 and other industry standards. By taking interest in such standards, we can learn more about working with translation agencies. And for those of us who just love getting under the bonnet to boost the translations we proof-read -- perhaps we should understand our client's brief. Sometimes editors need to know when to apply the brakes.
Kind regards,
Daniel
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hazmatgerman Germany Local time: 22:51 English to German
emphatically
Sep 23, 2011
with Lawyer-Linguist and Philip Lees. In publishing proofreading is not editing or revising but checking the proofs against MS. In German, Hauskorrektur.
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Philip Lees Greece Local time: 23:51 Member (2008) Greek to English
TOPIC STARTER
Draft text for revised wiki
Sep 27, 2011
At last I've found some time to work up a preliminary text for revising the wiki proofreading entry. Following Samuel's suggestion, I've included some other terms that should have their own sections (shown in bold). I think a lot the existing material in the wiki page could be moved to those sections (which I haven't written yet - I wanted to test the water with the core material first).
So here is a draft for the wiki definition of proofreading. All constructive comments are welcome.
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Proofreading
The international standard EN 15038, a quality standard developed especially for providers of translation services, defines proofreading as "Checking of proofs before publication." The word "proofs" in this context refers to the final, typeset form of a document that is being made ready for printing. The proof-reader's job is to check for typographical and punctuation errors, as well as ensuring that the publisher's preferences regarding the layout and general appearance of the text have been correctly applied. The key thing to remember is that the document in question is the final version prior to printing or delivery and that usually only minor changes are permitted.
This is the traditional and "official" meaning of proofreading. However, it is important to be aware that, nowadays, many translators and outsourcers use the word to mean quite different things. For example, a translator or editor may be asked to examine a translation for appropriateness, compare the source and target texts, and recommend corrective measures. According to EN 15038, the proper term for this task is "revision". Often, when an outsourcer asks for "proofreading" what they are actually expecting is copy editing (also written "copyediting" or "copy-editing"), which includes the same kind of corrections as proofreading (in the strict sense), but goes further to correct word usage and sentence structure, clarify content and check internal consistency and basic formatting. Occasionally, an outsourcer may even expect substantive editing, which includes the above checks but also may require critical revision of the text, reworking confusing and awkward writing and, if necessary, reorganising content and structure to achieve clarity of subject, logic and consistency.
Obviously, these different levels of checking and correcting involve different skills and are likely to require vastly different amounts of time. Therefore, before agreeing a rate for a proofreading job, it is important to make certain that the translator/editor and outsourcer are talking about the same task, that they are "on the same page", both metaphorically and literally.
(With thanks to Suzan Hamer for some of the definitions.)
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