As a student translator starting out, am I taking a “proof readers” comments too much to heart?
Charlie Bavington United Kingdom Local time: 22:06 French to English
I was being pointed (if that's the word!)
Dec 2, 2011
Y'know, bit like being sarky but without the bad press sarcasm gets
Ty Kendall wrote:
Charlie Bavington wrote:
This may be the case with this "ONG company", whatever one of those is, ...
"ONG, abbreviation for Organisation Non-Gouvernementale, Organizzazione non-governativa, Organización No Gubernamental or Organização não Governamental, respectively French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese for Non-governmental organization"
I was under the impression this is what was meant. I could be wrong though.
If it is an NGO, then he really should have translated (since the rest is in English). But I think Will's source languages are French & Italian, so maybe he's just too used to writing ONG and forgot...
So, yes, I too guessed that was what he meant (and even making allowances along the lines of your extremely generous possible explanation, why add the word "company", which itself hints at further shortcomings...) but we shouldn't have to guess and neither should anyone reading his translations. And it was in there twice. I bet you a quid it's in the translation too
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Ty Kendall United Kingdom Local time: 22:06 Member (2011) Hebrew to English
Sarcasm was suspected :-)
Dec 2, 2011
Charlie Bavington wrote:
Y'know, bit like being sarky but without the bad press sarcasm gets
Ty Kendall wrote:
Charlie Bavington wrote:
This may be the case with this "ONG company", whatever one of those is, ...
"ONG, abbreviation for Organisation Non-Gouvernementale, Organizzazione non-governativa, Organización No Gubernamental or Organização não Governamental, respectively French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese for Non-governmental organization"
I was under the impression this is what was meant. I could be wrong though.
If it is an NGO, then he really should have translated (since the rest is in English). But I think Will's source languages are French & Italian, so maybe he's just too used to writing ONG and forgot...
So, yes, I too guessed that was what he meant (and even making allowances along the lines of your extremely generous possible explanation, why add the word "company", which itself hints at further shortcomings...) but we shouldn't have to guess and neither should anyone reading his translations. And it was in there twice. I bet you a quid it's in the translation too
I know, I was being generous and rather forgiving. I must be becoming a sap in my old age. I also suspected you knew really (after posting) - but then I wasn't sure - and then I was convinced you were being sarky - I 'ummed and ahhed' for a few moments then just decided to leave the post anyway - either way - I thought it would at least answer the question if anyone else (who really didn't know) was reading. Call me a humanitarian.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Will Masters United Kingdom Student member (2011) Spanish to English + ...
TOPIC STARTER
Charlie...
Dec 2, 2011
So, yes, I too guessed that was what he meant (and even making allowances along the lines of your extremely generous possible explanation, why add the word "company", which itself hints at further shortcomings...) but we shouldn't have to guess and neither should anyone reading his translations. And it was in there twice. I bet you a quid it's in the translation too
... I'm afraid you've just lost a quid I said company as I wasn't sure how best to phrase it in the forum as I'm don’t write in them as much as many of the other translators who are able to offer their advice and experiences. In terms of the translations that I do, to this day I don’t recall once being told that the reader had to guess the meaning I was trying to convey. As for TY’s point on the translation of “ONG”, he is quite right, it should have been translated. As he says, however, when writing the comment and replies I simply forgot (I’m ashamed to say) to translate it.
I have taken your advice about asking the translators I spoke to about how to improve the style, and they again told me that style is entirely subjective and that everyone has their own. They said that with their years of experience they may not have phrased one or two sentences the way I did, but then again if they had the amount of experience I have then they would have phrased it more than likely in the same (or similar) way.
Can I also, at this point, ask that if you would like to make comments, you try where possible to keep them focused on the initial question? I appreciate I have not posted a reply as much lately as I did at the beginning and so have not been able to “lead” the discussion so to speak, but must admit I fail to see the helpfulness or relevance of sarcastic comments.
On a side note I received another email from the NGO, stating that the translation I provided has been revised by a second proof-reader to get an outsider viewpoint on, and so the NGO knows how best to proceed. As much as this proof-reader has found the odd thing here or there that he/she would like me to change (as is normal I believe?), he/she has no major problems with the work I submitted. Thank you to those of you, who left informative comments on your experiences with proof-readers, and to those of you who have brought my attention to the clear fact that more time needs to be spent double checking my posts before clicking “post”.
[Edited at 2011-12-02 14:31 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Charlie Bavington United Kingdom Local time: 22:06 French to English
You're in luck, Ty
Dec 2, 2011
I just got this cheque for £501 today, so I'll endorse it so you can pay it into your account, and then you can just transfer me the excess 500 quid and the job's a good 'un, I reckon.
(And it was "pointed", not "sarcastic" )
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Ty Kendall United Kingdom Local time: 22:06 Member (2011) Hebrew to English
Vindicated :-)
Dec 2, 2011
Will Masters wrote:
On a side note I received another email from the NGO, stating that the translation I provided has been revised by a second proof-reader to get an outsider viewpoint on, and so the NGO knows how best to proceed. As much as this proof-reader has found the odd thing here or there that he/she would like me to change (as is normal I believe?), he/she has no major problems with the work I submitted. Thank you to those of you, who left informative comments on your experiences with proof-readers, and to those of you who have brought my attention to the clear fact that more time needs to be spent double checking my posts before clicking “post”.
[Edited at 2011-12-02 14:31 GMT]
It seems you have been vindicated! That's good. Hopefully the NGO will now see this proofreader for what he/she is. A conniving opportunist. I think these unscrupulous proofreaders should be ashamed (I won't go as far as Jeremy Clarkson and say they should be taken out and shot - even though that would be a fitting end)
@ Charlie - I expect the cheque is on its way? Did I give you my correct details?
Ty Mbgambu
PO Box 15
Lagos,
Nigeria.
Thanks!
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
gad United States Local time: 17:06 Member French to English
It is not a proofreader's job to comment
Dec 2, 2011
I have never understood why any proofreader would comment on a translation. That's not his/her job. The job of a proofreader is to proofread, period. The "quality" of the translation will be apparent through the edits. I also find it very suspicious that this proofreader now has the job of re-translating the whole text - how convenient. Also, the NGO's response to you, when you asked to see the supposed "mistakes", was unacceptable. Any complaints should be justified back to the translator.
Furthermore, just reading your opening post, if this supposed proofreader doesn't even communicate well in writing in ANY of these working languages, then obviously s/he is full of it. How would someone like that know what a good translation is? To be a good translator, one has to at least write correctly in the target language, and preferably in the source language as well.
So I see that since then you have been vindicated, what with the second proofreader saying that your translation is of good quality. Still, it is frustrating to deal with overzealous - and just plain wrong - proofreaders. I hope that NGO never uses that person again. If they do, those who would benefit from that NGO's text in that target language...well, they will be the ones to suffer from the poor quality of the texts in their language.
Good luck. Don't let this get you discouraged as things like this have happened to others.:)
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Catherine Bolton Italy Local time: 23:06 Member (2002) Italian to English + ...
RE sarcasm
Dec 2, 2011
Charlie Bavington wrote:
Y'know, bit like being sarky but without the bad press sarcasm gets
Ty Kendall wrote:
Charlie Bavington wrote:
This may be the case with this "ONG company", whatever one of those is, ...
"ONG, abbreviation for Organisation Non-Gouvernementale, Organizzazione non-governativa, Organización No Gubernamental or Organização não Governamental, respectively French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese for Non-governmental organization"
I was under the impression this is what was meant. I could be wrong though.
If it is an NGO, then he really should have translated (since the rest is in English). But I think Will's source languages are French & Italian, so maybe he's just too used to writing ONG and forgot...
So, yes, I too guessed that was what he meant (and even making allowances along the lines of your extremely generous possible explanation, why add the word "company", which itself hints at further shortcomings...) but we shouldn't have to guess and neither should anyone reading his translations. And it was in there twice. I bet you a quid it's in the translation too
FWIW, this seems like a personal exchange and perhaps should have remained so. I don't know Will, but his original post said he is a student, as does his status on Proz.
If you don't want to or can't mentor the new generation, that's fine. But there's no point in criticizing someone who asked an honest question. Many of the people who posted responses made typos themselves and then corrected them
If the foo shits, as it were ...
Catherine
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Charlie Bavington United Kingdom Local time: 22:06 French to English
Not sure I can fully agree with that
Dec 2, 2011
cbolton wrote:
But there's no point in criticizing someone who asked an honest question. Many of the people who posted responses made typos themselves and then corrected them
As I said earlier, it's not about typos (I haven't corrected mine!). I saw a few things that to me were potentially indicative of more fundamental issues, and I wasn't the only one. Which brings us back to the point at hand. If the question asked is, broadly, "how do you deal with ....?", then, if there is evidence at any given point to suggest that the antagonist, as it were, might have a point, then surely it is legitimate to say so? Regardless of whether or not the protagonist is subsequently vindicated.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Catherine Bolton Italy Local time: 23:06 Member (2002) Italian to English + ...
mentoring or what?
Dec 2, 2011
Charlie Bavington wrote:
cbolton wrote:
But there's no point in criticizing someone who asked an honest question. Many of the people who posted responses made typos themselves and then corrected them
As I said earlier, it's not about typos (I haven't corrected mine!). I saw a few things that to me were potentially indicative of more fundamental issues, and I wasn't the only one. Which brings us back to the point at hand. If the question asked is, broadly, "how do you deal with ....?", then, if there is evidence at any given point to suggest that the antagonist, as it were, might have a point, then surely it is legitimate to say so? Regardless of whether or not the protagonist is subsequently vindicated.
The customer's questions/complaints must naturally be addressed. I was talking about the people who criticized Will's original post because of typos yet had typos in their own posts.
I think there is a bigger issue here: Are we willing to help those coming into this trade or not? We can help them the way that Will's two colleagues did, by rereading and commenting. But not by poking fun at the post and the mistake of NGO/ONG Will made here and then admitted.
We have all -- and I mean ALL -- made typos here on Proz, mainly because we write off the cuff and are in a hurry. But that doesn't mean the person is a bad translator. When I type into this box I get an automatic spell check, but I don't know if it works for everyone.
As an aside, I use Chrome, which offers an English spell check, so I see mistakes. I'd love to know what other see when they type into the posting box, but this should probably be addressed in another forum posting.
Again, FWIW,
Catherine
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Start and finish your translations faster than ever with Fluency Translation Suite 2011. TMs, Terminology, and Online Resources are all fully integrated and only a click away. Download a free trial today!
SDL Trados Studio 2011 is the latest market-leading translation memory software from SDL. Now with Track Changes, Bilingual Word Files support, new Display Filter, AutoSuggest and more great details.
The translation workplace 
I said company as I wasn't sure how best to phrase it in the forum as I'm don’t write in them as much as many of the other translators who are able to offer their advice and experiences. In terms of the translations that I do, to this day I don’t recall once being told that the reader had to guess the meaning I was trying to convey. As for TY’s point on the translation of “ONG”, he is quite right, it should have been translated. As he says, however, when writing the comment and replies I simply forgot (I’m ashamed to say) to translate it.
Translation news