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Online courses promoted by Proz
Thread poster: Solange SEGUEL-HOLTHEUER

Solange SEGUEL-HOLTHEUER  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 09:30
English to Spanish
+ ...
Jun 19, 2008

I have been receiving a lot of interesting online courses offered by Proz members or users. I think it is a very good idea and I would like to take them all. Yet, the prices of such online courses are beyond what many of us as freelance translators can afford, especially if we want to take more than one course. As an example, an online DTP course divided in two modules of three and two hours each (5 hours in total) costs USD200. Economic situations in our Latinamerican countries differ greatly from those in the US, and translating rates are quite different too. What do you think?

[Edited at 2008-06-19 13:45]


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Andreea Vertes  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 14:30
English to Romanian
+ ...
Re: Jun 19, 2008

hear! hear! ...

[Edited at 2008-06-20 06:46]


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cisternas  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:30
English to Spanish
+ ...
I agree with you Jun 19, 2008

I would like to take some of them, but they are beyond our possibilities...

Regards, Cristina


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xxxJPW  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:30
Spanish to English
+ ...
Compared to other courses... Jun 19, 2008

it could actually be pretty good value. I dare say if you went to another place or website for a DTP course, you could pay quite a bit more.

The ProZ one works out at $40 an hour, or £20, or €26; whatever currency you prefer.

That's about the same price as your average driving lesson these days.

And if you get the same 'advert' sent to you a number of times, it simply means that the fish 'are not biting', as it were.

I have been receiving a lot of interesting online courses offered by ProZ.com members or users. I think it is a very good idea and I would like to take them all.


Of course (excuse the pun), if you wanted to do them all, then yes, it would get quite pricey!

JP.


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 13:30
English to German
+ ...
I do not wsh to comment... Jun 19, 2008

Hi ! but may be not so interactive, but may be pre-recorded editions at packaged pricing!! I am sure this variant will be interesting to many and ....Brandis

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patyjs  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 06:30
Spanish to English
+ ...
Me too... Jun 19, 2008

I read with interest the blurb about the DTP course and would really like to attend, but the price is prohibitive, I'm afraid. US$40 per hour? That's not so much a driving lesson, more like two full tanks of gas! And more than the monthly quota for unlimited time at the gym.

I realize it's expensive for me because more than half of my work comes from local clients, and it may well be quite accessible for others. Still, I live in paradise, so what the hey!


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Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:30
French to English
+ ...
Comparative costs Jun 19, 2008

patyjs wrote:

I read with interest the blurb about the DTP course and would really like to attend, but the price is prohibitive, I'm afraid. US$40 per hour? That's not so much a driving lesson, more like two full tanks of gas! And more than the monthly quota for unlimited time at the gym.



Two full tanks of gas for €40?! Oh to live on the other side of the pond... my last full tank of petrol cost me £50+ or the equivalent of $100 in the UK and it's gone up again since then. Makes the course sound quite reasonable in comparison.....

Still you have to weigh up the ultimate value of these things. I've done a few 2-day TM courses costing between £150 and £200 and regard them as money well spent in terms of increased productivity. I got much more from them than I would have done just slogging away on my own.


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 13:30
English to German
+ ...
classroom in a book variant.. Jun 20, 2008

patyjs wrote:

I read with interest the blurb about the DTP course and would really like to attend, but the price is prohibitive, I'm afraid. US$40 per hour? That's not so much a driving lesson, more like two full tanks of gas! And more than the monthly quota for unlimited time at the gym.

I realize it's expensive for me because more than half of my work comes from local clients, and it may well be quite accessible for others. Still, I live in paradise, so what the hey!
Hi! have you tried this. Most DTP Packages such as PageMaker, FM etc., come with built-in tutorials and sample files. But they also offer mostly only entry side made interesting. To be professional in DTP area costs nerves and time. Brandis


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Jennifer Barnett  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:30
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
online courses promoted by Proz Jun 20, 2008

Excuse me if I sound too pendantic but everything is relative as so also the costs of professional development. Services offered by US institutions are costed to be compatible with the earning rate and cost of living in the US (recent blips like transport fuel price rises aside). The cost of developing and producing a course and keeping it updated also counts; that must be earnt back as well. These Proz course costs are very reasonable for professional training.

Moreover, the costs of continuing professional development are supposed to costed into your tarif just like office materials. It is in any case a business cost and so should be tax deductable.

Those from countries with a lower cost of living and earning rates could try to arrange for courses in their native language at rates more compatible with their cost of living etc. Perhaps suitably motivated and qualified people from such countries could work together with Proz to produce some native language versions of the same courses, then run them locally at an appropriate cost. This is often a bit scary for the original creators because the courses can then lead a life of their own with the danger of the content becoming distorted.

On the other hand, I have also read elsewhere in a Proz forum that translators in South America, and no doubt other countries, benefit from having lower tarifs by attracting a lot of work from richer countries. Obviously the opportunity to profit from this would depend on one's language pair but considering such an adantage, I would think that many translators must be doing well enough to able to afford professional development of this kind.

Good luck!


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xxxJPW  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:30
Spanish to English
+ ...
comparative costs Jun 20, 2008

Claire Cox wrote:

Two full tanks of gas for €40?! Oh to live on the other side of the pond... my last full tank of petrol cost me £50+ or the equivalent of $100 in the UK and it's gone up again since then. Makes the course sound quite reasonable in comparison.....


So there you have it. Blame it all on the price of oil, which is what everyon'e doing anyways. The circle turns...

And then:

Still you have to weigh up the ultimate value of these things. I've done a few 2-day TM courses costing between £150 and £200 and regard them as money well spent in terms of increased productivity. I got much more from them than I would have done just slogging away on my own.


More important, is what you get for what you pay out.

[Two full tanks of gas(oline) for forty dollars is simply beyond my comprehension.]

[Edited at 2008-06-20 12:27]


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Andrea Riffo  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 09:30
English to Spanish
I'm not sure I understand Jun 20, 2008

Jennifer Barnett wrote:

On the other hand, I have also read elsewhere in a Proz forum that translators in South America, and no doubt other countries, benefit from having lower tarifs by attracting a lot of work from richer countries. Obviously the opportunity to profit from this would depend on one's language pair but considering such an adantage, I would think that many translators must be doing well enough to able to afford professional development of this kind.

Good luck!


In what way does earning less than our colleagues from "richer countries" (the alleged "lower rates" that you seem to consider a benefit) give us an "advantage" to pay the European/US fees for the courses??


Greetings,
Andrea


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xxxLeonardo Fus  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:30
English to Spanish
+ ...
On line courses Jun 20, 2008

Hi!

Thank you all for writing so enthusiastically.

Let me give you some information about ProZ.com online trainings.

Following our mission to provide tools an opportunities, the aim of the program is to allow people, no matter where they are, to get the same knowledge and skills as any other translator in the world.

Most of our sessions are 3 or 4 week courses, with a time load ranging from 15 to 20 hours, and in every case, all prices are defined together with the Trainer, with an average price of USD 200. That means that the price you pay for a one-on-one session with a specialist is less than 10 USD an hour, of course much less that what this same specialist can earn translating, for example.

So we at ProZ.com are thankful to all those specialists and trainers who put their personal income in second place when deciding to share their knowledge and expertise with their colleagues.

That said, ProZ.com is a community, and we are here to help. For all our members, there should be no economic barrier that gets in the way of their willingness to learn, improve and enhance their profession.

So if you are interested in a session, we will help you to take it. Please contact our Training Coordinator and together we will find a way to help you out.

Regards,

Leonardo Fusero
ProZ.com


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Solange SEGUEL-HOLTHEUER  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 09:30
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Jun 20, 2008

Thanks, Leonardo, for your --and Proz-- willingness to help. I do appreciate --as I think all our colleagues do-- the excellent service and support that Proz gives to us, translators.

Opinions shared in this post have been very interesting. Thanks again,


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Jennifer Barnett  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:30
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
the advantage is more work Jun 21, 2008

[quote]Andrea Riffo wrote:

Jennifer Barnett wrote:

On the other hand, I have also read elsewhere in a Proz forum that translators in South America, and no doubt other countries, benefit from having lower tarifs by attracting a lot of work from richer countries. Obviously the opportunity to profit from this would depend on one's language pair but considering such an adantage, I would think that many translators must be doing well enough to able to afford professional development of this kind.

Good luck!


In what way does earning less than our colleagues from "richer countries" (the alleged "lower rates" that you seem to consider a benefit) give us an "advantage" to pay the European/US fees for the courses??


Dear Andrea,

The Proz forum where this is discussed is Money matters;
Subject - posting; Discussing low-paying jobs with outsourcers, Laure Claesen, May 24
Response: 'An ominous prospect', Marcos Guntin

The advantage I mention comes from attracting work away from richer countries by working at a lower tarif than richer countries. That is, plenty of work (obviously this will not apply to every single translator in South America). As I said, it is relative. The money then earnt is spent in a country with a lower cost of living than the richer countries, so theoretically, it can't be so bad financially that it is impossible to afford, say, one European/US course a year.

You may earn less on paper than colleagues from 'richer countries' but you are not paying the higher costs of living and working that they do.

I hope that is more clear.


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Andrea Riffo  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 09:30
English to Spanish
Still don't get it Jun 23, 2008

Jennifer Barnett wrote:

You may earn less on paper than colleagues from 'richer countries' but you are not paying the higher costs of living and working that they do.

I hope that is more clear.


Dear Jennifer,

It still doesn't make sense.

We would be at an advantage if we earned the same, while having -allegedly- lower costs of living. That is not the situation, however: we may have lower costs of living (which btw is quite a misinformed assumption, specially regarding work-related costs) but, at the same time, we earn less so it evens out.

AND, we still have to pay European and USAmerican prices for technology, software, professional associations, etc. (as this thread clearly pointed out). This, while earning less (in many cases, considerably less) than what our colleagues in Europe and/or USA make.

So, I ask once again: where's the advantage? The only ones getting an advantage out of this are certain agencies who ask for 0.10 and then outsource at 0.03/word. But that advantage does not reach the freelancer.

Greetings

[Edited at 2008-06-23 15:40]


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