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A couple of questions about the Certified Pro program
Thread poster: Niraja Nanjundan
Niraja Nanjundan  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:56
German to English
Oct 28, 2008

I have applied to the Certified Pro program and am waiting to hear the result of my application. I noticed today that Certified Pro is now a selection criteria in the directory search, and was looking at all the Certified Pros in some of the major language pairs, i.e. German to English (my pair), French to English and Spanish to English. I am a bit puzzled about the selection process and how exactly the program is going to be run and, at the moment, have two questions in particular:

- Is the present list of Certified Pro members definitive?

- I heard there is going to be some kind of continuous assessment in the program. How will this be carried out? Does that mean if people don't continuously fulfil certain criteria, they will be re-assessed?

I may not be making myself clear, but that's because I am, in fact, quite confused about the whole thing. I hope someone can clarify.

I know the program was a "secret" for a while, but now that it's been officially announced, I presume we are allowed to discuss it in the forums. If not, I'm sure a moderator or staff member will take appropriate action.

Thanks in advance for any comments.


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:26
Italian to English
+ ...
Answers Oct 28, 2008

Niraja Nanjundan wrote:

- Is the present list of Certified Pro members definitive?


No, more people are being approved every day.


- I heard there is going to be some kind of continuous assessment in the program. How will this be carried out? Does that mean if people don't continuously fulfil certain criteria, they will be re-assessed?



As I understand it, how to implement the "continuous assessment" part is still under discussion.



I know the program was a "secret" for a while, but now that it's been officially announced, I presume we are allowed to discuss it in the forums. If not, I'm sure a moderator or staff member will take appropriate action.



No, we're free to discuss it now - the programme was announced in the last newsletter.

Good luck with your application!


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Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:26
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
I can only answer for the parts I know Oct 28, 2008

Niraja Nanjundan wrote:

- Is the present list of Certified Pro members definitive?


No, it is being expanded and the process is ongoing. The purpose of the program is the identification of translators who meet professional standards as per EN 15038 (meaning, it is open to anyone out there who can be identified as meeting said standard).

- I heard there is going to be some kind of continuous assessment in the program. How will this be carried out? Does that mean if people don't continuously fulfil certain criteria, they will be re-assessed?


One of the factors to be considered here is ongoing professional development, such as implemented, for instance, by ATA and ITI. There may be others.

HTH.


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Niraja Nanjundan  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:56
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Discussion not restricted to my questions Oct 28, 2008

Thanks for the answers so far.

If anyone else who has applied or is considering applying has any questions other than mine, please feel free to use this thread to discuss them. I think it would be good to know as much about the program as possible.


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Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:26
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
Oh, didn't know that Oct 28, 2008

Niraja Nanjundan wrote:
I noticed today that Certified Pro is now a selection criteria in the directory search,


But I cecked and you are right.


Have a nice day!


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Marijke Singer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:26
Dutch to English
+ ...
Has anybody benefited from being a Certified Pro? Oct 28, 2008

Not just financially but in any way

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Paola Dentifrigi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 20:26
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
See the new criterion Oct 28, 2008

Funny - you don't need to be native to be certified. Don't like that.
Old story, however.
Paola


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sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 20:26
German to English
Has anybody benefited from being a Certified Pro? Answer: ProZ.com Oct 28, 2008

Paola Dentifrigi wrote:

Funny - you don't need to be native to be certified. Don't like that.
Old story, however.
Paola


"Paid membership in ProZ.com (corporate membership for companies, regular membership for freelancers) is required; "

Any more questions?


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Paola Dentifrigi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 20:26
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
Proz.com and membership Oct 28, 2008

Dear Sylvie,
I don't care if Proz benefits from this new program in the way you're mentioning.
I was (like many people here) a paying member long before the program was launched.
All I want is a program with stricter criteria, and I am going to post this elsewhere.
Kind regards,
Paola


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KSL Berlin  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 19:26
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
Qui bono? Oct 28, 2008

sylvie malich wrote:
Has anybody benefited from being a Certified Pro? Answer: ProZ.com

"Paid membership in ProZ.com (corporate membership for companies, regular membership for freelancers) is required; "

Any more questions?


I doubt that. I can't see non-members beating down the doors to become members just for this; a filter based on membership is already available. Moreover, do you really think it is reasonable to expect a large effort - or much effort at all - to be expended for the verification of credentials, etc. for persons who are not in some way covering the overhead expenses of the site?

It's an interesting experiment, and I hope that it is successful in some way in the long run (don't ask me to define success at this point - I haven't given it much thought). I'm a bit mystified by the whole thing at this point, especially as I was contacted during the "secret" phase and never got any reply to my responses, but I'm not going to worry about it all much. The logistics of launching this are probably a complete pain in the neck, so I'll just keep busy with other things while the staff sort things out. I had wondered too what had become of my "application", only to realize at last that I had started filling it out ages ago and never actually clicked the "submit" button. Mea culpa.



[Edited at 2008-10-28 21:35]


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writeaway  Identity Verified

Local time: 20:26
Partial member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
You don't even have to be truthful about your real native language to get 'certified' Oct 28, 2008

sylvie malich wrote:

Paola Dentifrigi wrote:

Funny - you don't need to be native to be certified. Don't like that.
Old story, however.
Paola


"Paid membership in ProZ.com (corporate membership for companies, regular membership for freelancers) is required; "

Any more questions?


Agree with Paola and Sylvie. My concern is what makes a website suddenly assume it has a right and the authority to certify anything, let alone translators' skills and competence?



[Edited at 2008-10-28 16:08]


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xxxPRen
Canada
Local time: 15:26
French to English
+ ...
Exactly Oct 28, 2008

writeaway wrote:

sylvie malich wrote:

Paola Dentifrigi wrote:

Funny - you don't need to be native to be certified. Don't like that.
Old story, however.
Paola


"Paid membership in ProZ.com (corporate membership for companies, regular membership for freelancers) is required; "

Any more questions?


Agree with Paola and Sylvie. My concern is what makes a website suddenly assume it has a right and the authority to certify anything, let alone translators' skills and competence?



[Edited at 2008-10-28 16:08]


Agreed. And for those practicing Canada, a word of caution:

"The titles of certified translator, certified conference interpreter, certified court interpreter and certified terminologist are now protected by law in New Brunswick, Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia where ATIO, CTINB, OTTIAQ and STIBC have gained legal professional recognition by their provincial governments, bringing to fruition years of work by the leaders of those bodies. Some form of de facto recognition is also accorded by the public authorities to the members of most other member bodies, which are seeking official recognition of their titles within their respective jurisdictions"

See the CTTIC web site at http://www.cttic.org/certification.asp.

I wonder if the Proz.com leadership is aware of this? If so, they should qualify their "certification" accordingly.

P Ren
(CTTIC member through ATIA)


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 14:26
English to French
+ ...
That is not true Oct 28, 2008

writeaway wrote:
You don't even have to be truthful about your native language...


Nope, that's not true. While people can lie all they want to, everything you submit in your application is checked by peers. It is based on peer feedback that ProZ decides whether you become a member of the network or not. I even received a short test translation last week asking me to review it and decide whether it is commercially viable or not. So, yes, those who apply are scrutinized, and ProZ doesn't just take their word for it.

I have rated many of my colleagues in detail, and trust me, a few of them will never get a foot in the door because I told on them (they are the kind of people we'd rather not have in our industry, trust me). That is exactly the point. It is easy to lie in a profile and pretend to be a professional when you are just a person looking to make a quick buck, without any knowledge, skill or aptitude in translation. The pro network uses peer review to determine whether what our profile says is reasonably true.

Now, I would like to invite all certified pros to please, please, please be truthful in your review. If you are going to lie about somebody, better skip that review altogether. The whole point of this endeavour is to separate the wheat from the chaff. If we continually add the chaff back in, there is no point in having such a network.

Ultimately, the goal is to stop wannabe translators from harming the industry any further than they already have (pushing rates down, giving translators a bad rep, disppointing clients until clients think we are all that bad, etc.). We want true professionals to represent us, not people looking for get-rich-quick schemes. Professionals want to get back the control they had before the advent of globalization. The only way this will work is if we are truthful in our feedback.

Paola Dentifrigi wrote:
Funny - you don't need to be native to be certified.


Correction: you don't need to be native to apply. One of the questions asked in the peer review is if you have spoken to the person being reviewed and if you can attest that they speak said language at native level. The main prerequisite to become a certified pro is to speak your target language at native level. If it turns out you are not quite native, you can kiss that certification goodbye.

writeaway wrote:
Agree with Paola and Sylvie. My concern is what makes a website suddenly assume it has a right and the authority to certify anything, let alone translators' skills and competence?


They don't assume anything and they don't pretend to have rights. However, the overwhelming majority of credible professionals on this site has been getting literally furious at the twisting and perverting of the industry in the name of globalization. So, ProZ is giving them a means to distinguish between those who have a reputation as a professional, those who are on the right track and those who are just pretending (the majority, judging from what I see daily on this site - KudoZ, forum posts, profiles, etc.). This will benefit everybody, except for the wannabes. The professional will benefit from it because in the long term, the downward pressure on rates should be eased, along with the unacceptable payment terms, CAT rate schemes, etc. We all know that those who respect themselves enough to refuse rock-bottom rates and 90+ payment terms are mostly pros. Since pros provide higher quality translations, potential clients will have a more efficient and simple way to find the right person quickly, with limited financial risk.

If you don't agree with the idea, you are free to refrain. But this thing is coming, like it or not. For once, ProZ has done something that truly benefits the professional sector of the industry. We had this coming for a long time... If there weren't any means to distinguish between translators and "translators", that would cost us all - and that includes you.


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 14:26
English to French
+ ...
Any fool can tell the difference Oct 28, 2008

PRen wrote:

And for those practicing Canada, a word of caution...


ProZ is not giving away certified translator titles - they are giving away ProZ Certified PRO titles. Let me put them beside each other so it becomes clear:

Viktoria Gimbe
Certified translator

Viktoria Gimbe
ProZ Certified PRO

I don't think this could be debated in a court of law...

By the way, I hope you know that, as per Canadian legislation, anybody can say they are a translator, regardless of their certification or their studies. Anybody is allowed to translate for a living, certified or not. You are just not allowed to say you are a certified translator if you are not.

Certifying bodies in Canada certify you as a translator. ProZ certifies you as a pro. One would have to be blind not to see the difference...

[Edited at 2008-10-28 18:30]


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Paola Dentifrigi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 20:26
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
Still thinking that we need improvements Oct 28, 2008

Viktoria Gimbe wrote:

Correction: you don't need to be native to apply. One of the questions asked in the peer review is if you have spoken to the person being reviewed and if you can attest that they speak said language at native level. The main prerequisite to become a certified pro is to speak your target language at native level. If it turns out you are not quite native, you can kiss that certification goodbye.


I see your point. The trouble is the language pair I am thinking of has the majority of translators who are non native, so they pobably review their skills mutually. If I were to judge their ability in Italian, I'd be stricter and probably deny it, believe me.
The same happened for the context, which was shameful indeed.
However, one thing is to speak, another to write. There's a huge difference.
We are talking of translations, not interpreting.
I'll enquiry further with Jared.

Paola


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