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e-Evil: hate mail on ProZ
Thread poster: Ursula Peter-Czichi

Ursula Peter-Czichi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:55
German to English
+ ...
May 1, 2002

I recently received my first hate e-mail. After forwarding it to Henry, I blocked the sender. A few days later I mentioned it on one of the forum sites.

As a response, a few peers forwarded or quoted some of the hate mail that they had received. It was a sad story to look at, the hate mail writer(s) suggested that:



  • the recipient should do the world a favor and die,


  • the recipient should succumb to a debilitating brain disease,


  • the recipient was mentally disabled or any other form of this type of statement


  • the recipient is a [four-letter-word] racist [animal],


  • the recipient should hide as to not desecrate the enlightened community of translators.


  • ....




There is no excuse for sending this type of messages, they carry the stench of evil, some are scary, indeed.



My suggestion is to exclude these hate mail perpetrators from the KudoZ site and the forum (not from the ProZ site as their work place). Of course, some people have quite a few email addresses.

Are there any workable suggestions?



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CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 21:55
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
they should be banned May 1, 2002

There is no excuse for sending hate mail. I would not want to work with this kind of people, or to have them work for outsources under the aegis of Proz.com.



Did the person sign her/himself?



paola l m



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Ursula Peter-Czichi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:55
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Reply to Paola May 1, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-05-01 12:57, ludovici wrote:

There is no excuse for sending hate mail. I would not want to work with this kind of people, or to have them work for outsources under the aegis of Proz.com.



Did the person sign her/himself?



paola l m





Yes, he usually does.

Ursula

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Aurora Humarán  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 22:55
English to Spanish
+ ...
666 May 1, 2002

My suggestion is to exclude these hate mail perpetrators from the KudoZ site and the forum (not from the ProZ site as their work place). Of course, some people have quite a few email addresses.

Are there any workable suggestions?



I have no suggestions but SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!!!!!!!



Aurora - Buenos Aires

Argentina





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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 21:55
German to English
+ ...
POV of someone who has been on both sides of this problem May 1, 2002

Here is the point of view of someone who has been on both sides of this problem (i.e., receiving hate mail and guilty of sending some harshly worded messages himself):



- we have to be very careful about the definition of \"hate mail\"; hate mail is a very specific legal term and excludes, for example, mail that is sent out to show one\'s disagreement or displeasure with someone else\'s opinions or conduct



- frequently, those that complain about \"hate mails\" neglect to tell the whole story (e.g., that they themselves have been guilty of objectionable conduct - they send out hateful messages, but complain when somebody has the \"guts\" (or is stupid enough) to fire back in self-defence)



- I do agree, however, that messages that include racist attacks or that serve to denigrate entire groups of people should not be tolerated, but ProZ cannot police the world. Yes, ProZ can step in if such things are sent through forums or through ProZ mail, but what if such messages are exchanged off-site? ProZ has no jurisdiction there.



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bochkor
Local time: 21:55
English to German
+ ...
Absolutely agree with Werner! May 1, 2002

I couldn\'t have put it better myself. It contains all the angles.

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Ursula Peter-Czichi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:55
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
As one who has never written, received before now or answered hate mail May 1, 2002

THERE ARE NO EXCUSES!



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-01 13:29 ]


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 21:55
German to English
+ ...
Spot on! May 1, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-05-01 13:27, mayet wrote:

THERE ARE NO EXCUSES!



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-01 13:29 ]





Yes, no excuses - as long as \"hate mail\" fits the legal definition and as long as the complainant tells the whole story.

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Ursula Peter-Czichi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:55
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Acceptable e-Evil? May 1, 2002

NO EXCEPTIONS!

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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 21:55
German to English
+ ...
From a legal point of view, ... May 1, 2002

... there are always excuses and exceptions.



Again, when we speak of hate mail, we have to be careful not to misappropriate a very specific legal term. For example, sending a message, no matter how harshly it may be worded, to show one\'s disagreement does not fall under the legal definition of hate mail. Those messages may be harsh criticism, or a statement of facts that the \"victim\" may not enjoy, but they are not considered \"hate mail\" as defined under the law.



In my experience, it is often the \"victim\" (I use quotation marks because we do not talk about hate mail in the proper legal sense here anyway) that triggers such messages through his/her own objectionable conduct and/or statements and/or messages. I know what I am talking about: I have received such messages too, but in some cases, I simply ignored them (i.e., I did not run to anyone else to complain) because I knew at that time that I myself had provided the ammunition, so to speak - I had only myself to blame.



There are also instances where the \"victim\" did not provoke it; and those might constitute actual cases of hate mail in the legal sense.

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-01 13:57 ]


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wearethewords
Belgium
Local time: 03:55
Dutch to French
+ ...
victim of hate-mail too May 1, 2002

I too receveid hate mails from someone having posted a job offer on Proz last week. I haven\'t reacted to his mails since three days but he didnt stopped sending posts.

I hesitated to argue about him on Proz. But as I\'m not the only victim...

What to do ? Give publicly the name, address etc. of the author ?

I was told by Members of the BCTIP that this man had already been excluded by several specialized mailing lists because of his very bad manners.


[addsig]


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 21:55
German to English
+ ...
Harassed by a job poster??? May 1, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-05-01 14:04, pulka wrote:

I too receveid hate mails from someone having posted a job offer on Proz last week. I haven\'t reacted to his mails since three days but he didnt stopped sending posts.

I hesitated to argue about him on Proz. But as I\'m not the only victim...

What to do ? Give publicly the name, address etc. of the author ?

I was told by Members of the BCTIP that this man had already been excluded by several specialized mailing lists because of his very bad manners.







This is serious and should be brought to the attention of ProZ.



There was another guy, who was recently banned from this site, who would constantly send out hate mail (as defined under the law): he would write, for example, that all Anglos had to be ethnically cleansed (!!!). Now, that\'s REAL hate mail.

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-01 14:13 ]

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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:55
English to German
+ ...
No excuses, but... May 1, 2002

Werner, I agree: one needs to see the whole story - but at the end of the day, any ProZ member who sends messages such as the ones shown by Ursula should be banned from using the entire site. And that\'s without warning or a \"3-strike\" policy.



As Paola correctly pointed out, there can be no excuse for this kind of message, even if it was a reaction provoked by something that happened beforehand. (Werner, I guess this is part of your point: one would have to be careful not to kick someone out who blew his/her fuse, but to leave the \"trigger\" untouched.)



So far, I have been spared the experience - if I was the subject of such messages, I would contact Henry personally, seeking the expulsion of anyone involved in this sort of thing.


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laurab
Mexico
Local time: 20:55
English to Italian
+ ...
I don't think legality is the issue May 1, 2002

Werner, I don\'t think that Ursula worries about the legal aspect of hate mails. I agree with her - the list of examples she gave include very heavy words that go way beyond freedom of speech. Gratuitous insults and such abuse are never justified, not even if asked for. I personally never received such mails (will I now??????!!!), but Ursula I just suggest you simply start ignoring him/her. I remember as a child when I got upset and stubborn and particularly nasty - my worse punishment was being ignored. I think it might work - won\'t he get tired of being unnoticed? I wonder.

Bye everyone.

Laura



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Rod Darby  Identity Verified
Ghana
Local time: 01:55
German to English
+ ...
yebbut May 1, 2002

I\'m very much in agreement with Werner Patels and Ralf Lemster, having been the butt of some pretty tacky mails in my short life as a \'pro\' (actually, I\'m just down here on a visit from amateurz.com!).

There are obviously some pretty weird people out there who either can\'t distinguish between \'ad rem\' and \'ad hominem\' (sorry, girls, it was the Romans who invented the expression, not me) comments, or don\'t share my sense of humour (which I think may be the nub of my problem).

However, if I disagree with a patently bad translation, I don\'t expect to get offensive mail calling me a nobody, I expect substantiation of the translation I criticised or at least belated recognition that there might just be people around who know better.

Perhaps we should ban people who make \'ad hominem\' comments, but only after hearing their version of what sparked the row.

But let\'s not get uptight about \'ad rem\' comments, i.e. disagreeing with other people, since one of the main arguments FOR this site is that askers can get straight answers, and not just guesses from linguistic punters with too much time on their hands.

Rod Darby

(aged 58-and-a-bit, lives in Germany, and is MOSTLY HARMLESS, as Douglas Adams would have said.)


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