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Thread poster: Patricia Lutteral

Patricia Lutteral  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 09:09
English to Spanish
+ ...
Jun 10, 2002

Hi everybody.



This is closely related to the \"Due pesi e due misure?\" thread, posted by Paola Ludovici and currently being discussed by our Italian colleagues.



Last week I was sent a short translation test by an American agency. When I started reading it I had a very distinct feeling of \"deja vu\" , so I did a quick search of the EN>ES ProZ glossaries.



Check this:



http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42663?keyword=size%20inserts

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42247?keyword=cardioplegia

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42476?keyword=cardioplegia

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/174990?keyword=cardioplegia

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/116602?keyword=cardioplegia

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/116603?keyword=cardioplegia

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/193921?keyword=delivery%20set

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/193918?keyword=delivery+set

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/193916?keyword=delivery%2Bset

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/193371?keyword=delivery%252Bset

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/193365?keyword=roller%252Bpump

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/193306?keyword=delivery%2525252Bset

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/193345?keyword=roller%25252Bpump

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42653?keyword=delivery%25252525252525252Bset

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/193916?keyword=roller%2Bpump

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42487?keyword=roller%2525252525252B

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42480?keyword=occlusive

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/116605?keyword=agglutinin

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42483?keyword=agglutinin

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42486?keyword=heat%20exchanger

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42658?keyword=mix-ratio

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42485?keyword=mix-ratio

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/42249?keyword=extracorporeal



We have discussed this issue several times before; however, I don\'t think we have ever analised the agency\'s point of view. Is it fair to post a whole test online? Isn\'t the agency entitled to a reasonable degree of confidentiality?



Even if you think that asking for help to do a test translation is OK (I do NOT), I think that in this particular case this is utterly unprofessional: not only is the whole test posted on line, making it totally useless for future evaluations; we\'ve also been cheated by questions disguised as part of a regular job. Worst of all, an agency is misled to assuming that a specific translator is qualified in the field of medicine and medical devices, of all fields.

This is people\'s lives we are talking here; staying away from fields we are not qualified for is also part of our professional responsibilities.



Best regards,



Patricia



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Egmont
Spain
Local time: 14:09
Afrikaans to Spanish
+ ...
ProZ.com Jun 10, 2002

So you have discovered that Proz.com is not for professional people...

Congratulations!
[addsig]


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Catherine Bolton  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:09
Member (2002)
Italian to English
+ ...
I agree 100% Jun 10, 2002

You are right on all points.

Whatever happened to professional ethics?

Most likely, the responsible parties aren\'t professionals at all.


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Alan Johnson  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:09
German to English
Not the first time Jun 10, 2002

Unfortunately I have recognised this before in German > English. I have seen some agency acceptance tests on here (some of which I have done myself) and also job sample translations, even of samples posted publicly here on ProZ. It always amazes me how many people jump in to assist others to do test or sample translations.

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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 14:09
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
Free Choice & Free Help Jun 10, 2002

Quote:




It always amazes me how many people jump in to assist others to do test or sample translations.





Hi Alan,



Well, most people might not know. Definitely, I would prefer the asker to say it is a test, as I were not ready to help out in that case. A word or two perhaps, it depends on the text, but definitely not for a substancial part of the text. I would say it is up to the asker to say it clearly from the beginning, because only this way we would have a real free choice and free help.



Giuliana
[addsig]

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Lexi-tech  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:09
Italian to English
+ ...
More explicit code of conduct Jun 10, 2002

Patricia\'s point if well taken. In the Italian Forum we are discussing adding to the Kudoz Etiquette.

One suggestion that we would like to see added to Etiquette above is that the asker clearly states that the question relates to a test so that colleagues may choose to answer or not.

I think it is a very good idea to launch a general forum on how to improve Kudoz etiquette.

paola l m



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Alan Johnson  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:09
German to English
It depends Jun 10, 2002

is what Giuliana says, and this is probably right I admit. Even in a test there may be difficult terminology. I personally feel that if I cannot complete a test successfully on my own, then I shouldn\'t be doing the job (but that doesn\'t include research!). So it\'s a question of the right dosage perhaps.

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mónica alfonso  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:09
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Ethics... Mmmm... Jun 10, 2002

After many years working in this profession I have come to discover not all of us share the same code (unluckily.

Last week there was a call for welding specialists (what I am not, mind you, and consequently disregarded). Yesterday I read a request (in another forum) for a welding glossary... I think that if you are a \'specialist\' you must already have more than one glossary...

Some other time, a year ago, I deleted a question from an asker who was making us translate for her (some of us had already suggested her many names of dictionaries both on- and off-line, of course after having answered many of her easy questions). I got a very hot mail (in my private address) which I had to resend to the moderator, such offensive terms the translator used in it.

You see, my idea here is \'live and let live\'. We cannot be the controllers of everybody else\'s behaviors, can we? The only thing we can do, methinks, is \'defend\' ourselves as far as we can (not answering more than a definite nº. of questions froma a same asker, for example). That\'s all.


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Erika Pavelka  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:09
French to English
Why accept to do tests at all? Jun 10, 2002

IMO, translators should only accept to do tests if it is for a specific project. It\'s a bit unreasonable for an agency to ask a translator to do a test just to be part of the database. The agencies for which I\'ve done tests in the past have been silent to this day (either I was added to their database and never heard from them again or they never got back to me).



If a translator has a certain amount of experience in the business already, then they should have samples prepared to offer to agencies.



My two cents,



Erika



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CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 08:09
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
Tests are sometimes necessary Jun 10, 2002

But I agree with Erika on the fact that they have to be targeted for a specific project or domain. (I just realized that I posted my previous reply as Lexitech, I was logged in to post a job).

paola l m



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Adriana Caraccio Morgan, Dip Trans IOL  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 09:09
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I agree - more ethics! Jun 10, 2002

I also would like to mention about glossaries. Well, you can offer me 1,000 glossaries of Chemistry, or other subject unknown to me - I would still be unable to get the \"idea\" of the text or even to be sure if my translation, although with the \'right words\', makes sense at all.

I also agree about the tests. I receive some tests every now and then, and unfortunately some times we don\'t even get an answer. And then, some time after this, you see the same agency posting ads like \"We accept CV\'s\" in general or with a translation job that could be sent to one of the translators they have in their database. For me, the best way of testing someone is giving them a small job.



Best,



Adriana

Brazil


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Patricia Posadas  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:09
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Agree 100% Jun 11, 2002

I hope you invited the agency to visit Proz If not, that is the least that should be done, then they can decide on the value of their test.



Anyhow, you can always cheat and have a test done by someone else. However, I don\'t see how this can be useful to the cheater. That person can\'t expect to have his/her job done every time!


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xxxtazdog
Spain
Local time: 14:09
Spanish to English
+ ...
let's not get sidetracked.... Jun 11, 2002

The issue here isn\'t whether tests are necessary or not. If you don\'t think they are, then fine, don\'t do them. However, I happen to agree with Patricia and Alan: if you take on a test for an agency, then I think you should be able to do it yourself without posting ANY of it asking for help. How in the world can some translators expect to do the REAL work if they can\'t even do the test on their own? I also agree wholeheartedly with the thought that, if someone feels the need to go ahead and post a term from a test, it should be very clearly identified as part of a test. I, for one, would definitely NOT offer any help in those circumstances.



My two cents.


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Andrea Bullrich  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:09
Member
English to Spanish
Foreshadowing Jun 11, 2002

It\'s a great idea to add this to KudoZ etiquette. The worst thing about questions from translation tests is that they usually foreshadow an endless string of questions when the asker actually gets the job.



Note to Monica: I also saw the job ad and the glossary request, and I just thought one more glossary wouldn\'t hurt. What\'s more, I think it\'s a sign of humility and should be welcome (aren\'t we all sick and tired of \"I-know-it-all\" types?).



Add my two cents to the anti-abuse fund



Andrea


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