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KudoZ abuse again: asking a question from a test translation
Thread poster: Dagmar Drews-Müller
Dagmar Drews-Müller  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:46
English to German
+ ...
Jun 21, 2002

Hi colleagues,



I noticed this question today in KudoZ EN->GE:

\"split-plate patient return electrode\"

http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&eid_c=21143&id=222636



This term is part of a short test for an outsourcer I am performing as well. The same term occurred for Chinese, Russian, and Spanish target languages.



Dagmar.



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Jacek Krankowski  Identity Verified
English to Polish
+ ...
Some leeway should be allowed Jun 21, 2002

As an outsourcer I would still accept a bidder who has asked one or two KudoZ questions while doing a test, as a reasonable use of KudoZ will then also be available to them \"in real life.\" It has become clear, at the same time, that KudoZ answerers do expect askers in such situations to clearly indicate that their questions come from a test. Should such an exceptional question be asked \"wholesale\" by an agency in several languages, it would definitely not be professionally acceptable on this website.



Abuse starts when you pose as a translator, submit an excellent test others have translated for you, corrupt the market by accepting low rates, and set out to do a paid translation in the hope to have a big chunk of it done by the very KudoZ answerers you have undercut.

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-06-21 11:35 ]


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Oleg Rudavin  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 14:46
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
I'm one of the abusers Jun 21, 2002

Judging by the occurrence of the term in quite a number of language pairs, it is rally difficult to translate.

Believe me, I did a thorough web search and called a few local doctors - none of which was very helpful - before posting it as a KudoZ question.

Oleg


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Bob Kerns  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:46
Member (2002)
German to English
What's abusive here? Jun 21, 2002

I see no reason to differentiate (critically or otherwise) between KudoZ questions which arise from a translation which is being paid for and questions in respect of a test translation. In both cases someone needs help and in both cases the rest of the community can decide for themselves whether they wish to answer the questions or ignore them. And in the case of a test translation I normally take EVEN MORE care than normally to make sure that I provide a good translation.

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Endre Both  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:46
Member (2002)
English to German
If your question relates to a sample translation, please say so Jun 21, 2002

Given that many people around here are against posting (and answering) questions relating to test translations while many others think it is perfectly OK, I think it is fair and not too much to ask for that this should be honestly indicated by the askers. This way everybody can decide for themselves whether to answer or to ignore the question.



From now on, when I suspect that a term might be needed for a test translation, I will post a note (in the \"More context\" field) to which the asker can then respond.



BTW, this problem has already been discussed on several occasions, e.g.

www.proz.com/?sp=bb/viewtopic&eid_c=30967&topic=3276&forum=23&13

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-06-21 11:39 ]


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Erika Pavelka  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:46
French to English
What abuse? Jun 21, 2002

Maybe if a translator was trying to get a whole text translated sentence by sentence (as we\'ve already seen), I\'d consider that abuse.



But asking a question about a term in a test? Why? Because it\'s a test? A test translation shouldn\'t be done differently than a real translation, and for some, that includes using KudoZ.



Erika



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swisstell
Italy
Local time: 13:46
German to English
+ ...
Congratulations for your (usual) level-headed view! Jun 21, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-06-21 10:59, RKKerns wrote:

I see no reason to differentiate (critically or otherwise) between KudoZ questions which arise from a translation which is being paid for and questions in respect of a test translation. In both cases someone needs help and in both cases the rest of the community can decide for themselves whether they wish to answer the questions or ignore them. And in the case of a test translation I normally take EVEN MORE care than normally to make sure that I provide a good translation.



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cotasur
Chile
Local time: 08:46
Spanish to English
+ ...
Much ado about nothing Jun 21, 2002

I think we are all better off doing our work than getting upset over some test question.

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Marijke Mayer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:46
Dutch to English
+ ...
I did the same the other day . . . Jun 21, 2002

. . . and was very happy with the results!



I resorted to this as I could not find anything on my terms in German-Dutch dictionaries, but I could in the German-English dictionaries! That, of course, still did not get me the Dutch term.



I posted some difficult German terms on the German-Dutch site, and then proceeded to put the same request, for the English equivalent, on the English-Dutch site. The results were good as you get a different public answering. In my case it worked out well to get satisfactory Dutch answers!



Marijke


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thierry2
English to French
+ ...
please, no more regulations Jun 21, 2002

I noticed that some people want more and more regulations.

What\'s interesting in this site is freedom. More regulations means less freedom.

If askers are to indicate this is a test, next step will be they will have to tell whether it\'s for an agency, or a private company, or simply themselves and so on...

So the regulations have to be kept to a minimum so that the site works well, and it seems to be the case.


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:46
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
asking for one or two sentences does not mean any abuse Jun 21, 2002

If you see the whole text posted sentence for sentence, then it is abuse. But this really does not matter, if someone is doing a test translation or his/hers usual business - askind for a sentce or a phrase is never an abuse of KudoZ. No one is forced to answer such question, but I´ll do.

We have often questions related to each other in PLGE section and no one claims an abuse of KudoZ. Those questions are difficult sentences or phrases, and often the asker gives a proposal of translation and asks for opinions - even if he/she asks some sentences/phrases one after another - nobody has something against.



Take ist easy, the weekend is comming...



Jerzy

Mod. GE>PL


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LogiCaf  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 07:46
English to French
It is a personal choice Jun 21, 2002

I agree with Thierry2.

I personaly wouldn\'t post a KudoZ to help me out with translating anything related to a test. But, I don\'t mind that other people do.

I know that when I answer to a KudoZ, I do not have any more info other than the words to translate. I don\'t mind.

Therefore, it is my choice to post or not to post such KudoZ and to answer or not to answer to KudoZ.

What I would consider real abuse is someone posting a KudoZ to answer to another KudoZ. But that would also be funny to me.

Stéf


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John Kinory
Local time: 12:46
English to Hebrew
+ ...
It's just a little sneaky, trying to equate a sentence with a phrase in passing Jun 25, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-06-21 19:11, JCzopik wrote:

If you see the whole text posted sentence for sentence, then it is abuse. But this really does not matter, if someone is doing a test translation or his/hers usual business - askind for a sentce or a phrase is never an abuse of KudoZ. No one is forced to answer such question, but I´ll do.

We have often questions related to each other in PLGE section and no one claims an abuse of KudoZ. Those questions are difficult sentences or phrases, and often the asker gives a proposal of translation and asks for opinions - even if he/she asks some sentences/phrases one after another - nobody has something against.





Asking for help with a phrase is fair enough, even when it is a test. Asking for help with a sentence? You shouldn\'t be doing that test in the first place.
[addsig]

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aivars  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 08:46
English to Spanish
+ ...
Abuse me I like it Jun 26, 2002

Either way it´s about learning. If you feel you don´t want to help someone on a test, no problem, there will always be those who will.

I´ll try to help everybody no matter the situation since I know that I will need help in the future


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Dagmar Drews-Müller  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:46
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Having thought about it ... Jun 27, 2002

Dear Colleagues,



please don\'t conclude that I am not willing to help other members! I know very well that I need help myself.

What I had been thinking was: If I can pass a test only by using KudoZ, I would be seriously in doubt if I can handle the rest of the translation. I would rather keep away from that job.

But I see now that it is not fair to blame others for having no problems when doing so. Your are right, Robert, Erika, Jerzy and others, resources allowed in normal translation business should be allowed in a test, too. And experts need resources, too. I should have thought of this before.

I just want to add that proZ is a great site, and I really appreciate the help I could get so far. And please don\'t doubt my willingness to contribute myself, too.



Dagmar.


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