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TEAM GLOSSARY--is there a need for it?
Thread poster: CLS Lexi-tech

CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 21:16
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
Oct 17, 2001

I was wondering whether it is possible and desireable to share a glossary between a few members. Is there anybody out there who feels the same need? Should we ask Henry?

We have assembled a small team in EN>IT community called ITANGHLIANO. We plan to spot, collect, explain and translate English expressions that are percolating into Italian for no apparent linguistic reasons, except the glamour of English and the willingness to do a bit of showoff on the part of the speaker.

This is not a job for one person and this is why we have assembled a team. Is this issue worth discussing and bringing to Henry\'s attention.



Look forward to input from other members.



Paola L M

mod en>it



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Gilda Manara  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 03:16
German to Italian
+ ...
ITANGHLIANO Oct 17, 2001

I find this suggestion very interesting. The percolation, as you call it, of english into italian - and other languages as well - is worth being kept under control. Whether the initiative can be successful is another matter - unfortunately (or fortunately) we live in societies where the power of masses rules, and even if masses can be educated, who will educate their educators? Concepts, events, trends that are presented to readers of magazines or TV spectators using english terms make their use unavoidable in future discussions. Initiatives aimed at discouraging this laziness at translating can only be welcome. By the way - the title ITANGHLIANO - do you know that in Florence, and generally in Tuscany, where I come from, there is since the 19th century a term commonly used for naming the community of english people who have traditionally chosen Tuscany as their second home? They are called \"anglobeceri\".

Good word - and if I can contribute I\'ll be glad to do it.

Gilda
[addsig]


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Francesco D'Alessandro
Italy
Local time: 03:16
English to Italian
+ ...
Italghliano glossary Oct 18, 2001

As a confessed \"purist\" I am totally in favour of this glossary. I can\'t see any reason why each language should not maintain its own linguistic structures and idioms, except the laziness of its own speakers and the wrong feeling that unnecessarily (mis)using words from another language one may pass for more cultured that she / he actually is. I have already mentioned a few times on ProZ one of the most blatant and ridiculous examples that I keep hearing every day on the radio from \"distinguished\" journalists: \"Il Ministro del Vèlfar\" (italian pronounciation for \"welfare\") for the correct \"Ministro della Previdenza Sociale\". So I think this glossary will serve the double purpose of lashing at this shameful misuse of two languages and of providing some fun as well.

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Laura Gentili  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 03:16
Partial member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
Great idea! Oct 18, 2001

I think it\'s an excellent idea. What do you need in order to implement it?

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Catherine Bolton  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:16
Member (2002)
Italian to English
+ ...
are you sure? Oct 18, 2001

So I suppose you\'ll stop using \"il computer\" and \"il PC\" and return to your \"calcolatore\", and you\'ll also stop sending \"e-mail\" and use cumbersome \"posta elettronica\" instead.

On the other hand, if this concept can weed out some of the horrible Italian that has crept into English, then I\'m all for it. I mean, if this will end the Starbucks craze for \"latte\" and \"capucino\" [sic], then that would really be a simpatico idea.

Hope I\'ve made my point.


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Angela Arnone  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:16
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
anglobecero Oct 19, 2001

Why is it a good word?

If \"becero\" means \"boor\" or \"simpleton\"?

How would one translate and interpret this word in this context: that the English-speaking community who choose Tuscany to be their home are foolish?

Much nicer to say they live in Chiantishire...

If the \"team\" that has formed intends to create a glossary to develop and investigate the phenomenon, it could be a most interesting intellectual exercise, taking into account, of course, that language is a manifestation of cultural developments of every era.

The English language, one of the most culturally evolved, complete and nuance-filled, that exists has emerged and continues to emerge from all the historic events that have forged it - it embodies thousands of years of events, suffering, war, culture and whatever else you want to mention.

English people have no prejudice against the use of pizza or pasta, as they never did accepting and absorbing Gaelic, Anglosaxon, Latin, Greek, Norman French, Scandinavian, Hindu, Chinese and others that I am too ignorant to know.

What a kaleidoscope of colour this language is and how all-embracing. I am proud to be a speaker and translator of it.

Borrowing of words has always been and I hope will continue to be a means for sharing culture. Surely the risk for a language like Italian is minimal - I know dozens of Italian people who don\'t ever use English words but they use hardly any Italian words either - their vocabulary is most limited.

This does not mean I am in favour of us peppering our translation work with foreign words in inverted commas, but a certain amount of \"laisser faire\" may be called for when we accept that we are tilting at windmills and when we realise that the use of foreign words is bilateral. On that note I shall go and shampoo my hair, get out of my pyjamas, sit on the sofa, rest my feet on the pouffe, sip a cappuccino and chew on a brioche, listen to some opera and dream a rococo dream of hamburghers with mayonaise...



Angela









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Catherine Bolton  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:16
Member (2002)
Italian to English
+ ...
as to mayonnaise Oct 19, 2001

Just for a laugh: a true story about mayonnaise.

My paternal grandfather always said that if he had another daughter (my aunts\' names are Mary, Ann and Jane -- quite original), he would name her Mayonnaise.

\"Just listen to that lovely sound. Ma.. yonnaise. Mayo... nnaise. It just rolls over your tongue.\"

I suppose it beats naming your son Maicol (as in \"Maicol Jecson\") -- something I have actually heard here. Now THAT\'s something that deserves being quelled.


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Gilda Manara  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 03:16
German to Italian
+ ...
No insult meant... Oct 19, 2001

Quote:


On 2001-10-19 02:40, Arnone wrote:

Why is it a good word?

If \"becero\" means \"boor\" or \"simpleton\"?

How would one translate and interpret this word in this context: that the English-speaking community who choose Tuscany to be their home are foolish?

Much nicer to say they live in Chiantishire...







Sorry, Angela, but Anglobecero has no insulting meaning at all... \"becero\" is a typical florentine, somebody speaking with typical florentine idioms and accent; it was therefore meant with love, grouping all the english people who had come to live in Italy and had become more italian than the local people. And, by the way, the name was created by an Englishman, living in Fiesole! When I remember his name I will tell you - so as to give references...

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CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 21:16
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Please visit some of the entries in Itanghliano glossary Oct 19, 2001

which I hope will become a Team glossary soon.

I resent being called a purist, this is why I call the people who easily allow English to creep in, for reasons having to do with appearing fashionable and impressing others, i \"pigristi\".

Please see the entry under \"customer service\" It was in the Sole 24 or Repubblica two days ago. Why should Italgas send around its bills with \"customer service\", when \"servizio clientela\" does very nicely, thank you very much?

Because, I argue, servizio alla clientela is still a concept foreign to my native and beloved mother country. They don\'t know what it is, and this is why usage of the English term gives it a foreign ring that gives the underlying attitude away.

What\'s wrong with \"servizio alla clientela\"? This is what we mean.

Nobody is talking about rooting out computer, or pizza in English, come on!

Read Roberto Vacca, Consigli a un giovane manager. Why should one say \"implementescion\" instead of fase realizzativa, realizzazione, beats me.

English has the advantage of shortness and compactness, and of turning any noun into an adjective without cumbersome prepositions (thereby, at times, obscuring the meaning, especially when writers become addicted to the piling on of nouns... we must all have experienced this as translators).



In any case, contributions are solicited and welcome.



paola l m



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CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 21:16
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Team Glossary: forgot to say... Oct 19, 2001

that my initial message was actually a plea for a team glossary function to assist teams in their work.



What do you think about this? It would be most useful for people working in the same field.



thanks

p.



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Angela Arnone  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:16
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
becero...and manager Oct 19, 2001

I thought it was weird!!

And as I know you have forsaken Chiantshire for Yorkshire I was confused!

But you gave me a chance to state my case too... so thanks!

And a quick note to Paola - why does the charming (and I\'m not being sarcastic - he\'s a great man) Roberto Vacca complain about \"implementescion\" and then call his book \"Consigli a un giovane manager\" - there\'s a perfectly respectable Italian word and it\'s \"dirigente\". My husband has been one for years and I would never dream of saying \"mio marito è un manager\" (and possible pronouncing it \"menagère\" into the bargain!!!)

I\'m enjoying this forum - can we continue?

Angela





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Gilda Manara  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 03:16
German to Italian
+ ...
we can continue! Oct 19, 2001

sure we can - and I hope we will, because the subject is interesting and every personal intervention can only add to it.

I have a \"technical\" question: Paola invites to look at some entries in the glossary - but how can one find it? And also the \"site\" of Itanghliano - I can enter it only from my personal profile; is it expected to remain so?

Another suggestion: it is right if we try to keep Italian texts as \"italian\" as possible. But could we also do something against the bad spelling of italian words in foreign texts? This could useful, too, for safeguarding our native language.


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CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 21:16
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
the glossary in question Oct 19, 2001

actually the entries I made into the glossary Itanghliano can only be accessed from my profile, this is why I was asking about a team glossary function, if possible, so that people belonging to the same team can all access it and make entries into a common database.

hope this helps



paola



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CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 21:16
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Vacca is all for some English terms Oct 20, 2001

[quote]

And a quick note to Paola - why does the charming (and I\'m not being sarcastic - he\'s a great man) Roberto Vacca complain about \"implementescion\" and then call his book \"Consigli a un giovane manager\" -



and so are we.

What I find troubling is Italgas using \"customer service\" in its bills (Repubblica of a few days ago). Why? Is it necessary? I don\'t think so.

These are the kind of things we are looking for, not policing.



Would you like to be a member of the team?



paola



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