KudoZ suggestions: intermediate level, separation of pro/easy in point histories

On 2002-08-08 08:43, WriteWord wrote:



But if points are also differentiated by Easy and Pro answers, it might give a more accurate picture of a person\'s expertise. More Pro points would generally indicate higher skill levels. A high percentage of Easy points would show that the person might possess reasonably basic knowledge, but perhaps lacks greater ability.



ROWAN MORRELL

(WriteWord Translations)





You have actually express a concept that a person with more KudoZ points is better translator than a person with less KudoZ points. What makes you feee like that? KudoZ is not a test or exam - it is a way for helping others, it is a way of entertainment, a method of improving your language abilities and learning new terms and even new languages and at least for some people a type of sport - they race, compete and win (points), but number of points does not tell you which translator is better!

Do you seriously believe that people who for any reason do not want to be bothered with questions and answer only ocassionally, just if there is something particularly interesting or amusing maybe, lack of translation abilities?



A 1000 or 10.0000 KudoZ points shown in the profile tells you only that a person is 1) quite a long time with ProZ, 2) spends considerably long time in front of computer, perhaps not terribly busy at work, 3)likes to discuss terminology issues, 4) likes the interactions with other colleagues, 5) has permanent internet connection, certainly not a dial-up modem, 6) has learnt this particular skill of answering KudoZ questions in a points generating way (it is a skill!) and 7) that this person actually enjoys KudoZ system. And that is it.



You should also take into account very important fact that points are awarded by the Asker, that is by a person who do not know the answer and uses all sorts of subjective criteria to award points - actually in many cases choosing a wrong answer or awarding just the fact that someone have tried to help. IMHO for this very reason, a number of KudoZ points cannot give you an \"accurate picture of a person\'s expertise\".



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You have actually express a concept that a person with more KudoZ points is better translator than a person with less KudoZ points. What makes you feee like that? KudoZ is not a test or exam - it is a way for helping others, it is a way of entertainment, a method of improving your language abilities and learning new terms and even new languages and at least for some people a type of sport - they race, compete and win (points), but number of points does not tell you which translator is better!

Do you seriously believe that people who for any reason do not want to be bothered with questions and answer only ocassionally, just if there is something particularly interesting or amusing maybe, lack of translation abilities?





I don\'t actually think that a person with truckloads of KudoZ points is necessarily better than one with fewer. That\'s kind of my point when it comes to dividing the points. At the moment it\'s too easy to get an impressive-looking record by answering lots of simple questions. In a way, it devalues the points. But differentiating between Easy and Pro points would give a better indication of their worth, and the person\'s ability. Not a totally accurate indication, just a better one than at present.



I would disagree to some extent about KudoZ not being a test. As I see it, KudoZ does test your problem-solving abilities and research skills. Every KudoZ question is like a miniature job. It may be only one word or one sentence, but to solve it successfully, you need to apply the same skills that you do when solving a word or sentence in a job of your own. Therefore, it does give some indication of your abilities, if not always a completely true one (depending on the asker\'s subjective selection process).



Having said that, KudoZ is also all the other things you say it is, and I have no dispute with that. Except that it\'s not ONLY those things.



Finally, no I don\'t seriously believe that a KudoZ \"part-timer\" with few points is worse than one with a ton of points, but let me move to your next paragraph before discussing this further.



Quote:

A 1000 or 10.0000 KudoZ points shown in the profile tells you only that a person is 1) quite a long time with ProZ, 2) spends considerably long time in front of computer, perhaps not terribly busy at work, 3)likes to discuss terminology issues, 4) likes the interactions with other colleagues, 5) has permanent internet connection, certainly not a dial-up modem, 6) has learnt this particular skill of answering KudoZ questions in a points generating way (it is a skill!) and 7) that this person actually enjoys KudoZ system. And that is it.





No, that\'s not it. There\'s a bit more. I think there is certainly some truth to all these assertions, but you need to understand that not everyone sees it like you do. Image and perception are important. Rightly or wrongly, a large number of KudoZ points create an impression of translation competence. They appear on everyone\'s profile as an additional marketing tool. Certainly, they do not create a very accurate impression of expertise, which is why I have made the suggestions I have. And it looks like at least one of those suggestions is going to be implemented, though not because of anything I said; it had evidently already been decided on.



Any advertiser or political spin doctor will tell you that image is everything. It is image, rather than substance, that often sells products or wins votes. It\'s all about how people perceive things. KudoZ points are part of our \"image\" here on ProZ. And that\'s one of the major reasons why someone with more KudoZ points can be perceived as being a better translator than a person with fewer points. Just as an superior product with a poor sales pitch will sell worse than an inferior product with a fantastic sales pitch, or a better politician with low poll ratings will attract fewer votes than an inferior politician with more charisma and higher poll ratings, so a higher number of KudoZ points make you look like a better translator, even if someone with half the points has twice the ability. Which means you may well attract more customers than that other person, rightly or wrongly.



But images are not always accurate. Just as pictures of models can be airbrushed to remove spots and wrinkles, so KudoZ points can be \"airbrushed\" if you answer lots of simple ones and thereby pad your total. But differentiating between Easy and Pro points would go some way to redressing this, as I think the ProZ staff have already recognised.



Quote:

You should also take into account very important fact that points are awarded by the Asker, that is by a person who do not know the answer and uses all sorts of subjective criteria to award points - actually in many cases choosing a wrong answer or awarding just the fact that someone have tried to help. IMHO for this very reason, a number of KudoZ points cannot give you an \"accurate picture of a person\'s expertise\".





Alas, yes, this is very true. However, some askers are pretty astute, I\'ve found, although everyone can get it wrong occasionally. It helps when the asker at least explains his or her reason for awarding the points to a particular person (I always try to do that so that people understand my line of thinking). When an asker overlooks an answer that gets overwhelming support in favour of an answer that got none, and gives no explanation, you wonder what\'s going on in their head. But I digress.



I think it\'s a little harsh to say the asker doesn\'t know the answer when finally choosing a winner. The asker might not know the answer initially (hence the question), but if someone provides a good answer with good references, and has plenty of people agreeing, there is a good chance the asker will know or be pretty sure by the end of it. So give the asker a little credit. But nonetheless, it is a subjective process, and because of that, it is somewhat flawed. However, there are ways to iron out some of the flaws, and I have tried to suggest one or two here.



In conclusion: KudoZ points give some indication of expertise, but not the most accurate one. Moreover, they create an \"image\" that\'s a component of the way you market yourself. Man has long judged by the outward appearance without bothering to look behind the mask, and this is the case with KudoZ points too. More points = greater skills. Not necessarily true, but often perceived that way, and how things are perceived can make the difference between winning or losing a job. (Though keeping the customer depends on how well you perform in their project.) It isn\'t particularly fair, but things can be done to improve the accuracy with which KudoZ points are perceived and hopefully make a wider range of people better understand their true value.



Best Regards



ROWAN MORRELL

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