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Tired of KudoZ askers awarding points too quickly!
Thread poster: Nikita Kobrin

Nikita Kobrin  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 05:58
Member (2010)
English to Russian
+ ...
Aug 20, 2002

Though this problem was discussed not long ago I\'d like to speak about it again.



KudoZ question posted: 3:32

The question closed: 3:51



I spent 40 minutes for research and came up with very good results just to see that the question had been closed only 20 minutes after its posting.



My variant was definitely better then that chosen by the Asker. Had I to post it though the question was already closed? Well, may be. But I was too angry with the Asker. I have even decided to make a black list of KudoZ \"unripe fruits\" eaters and never even try to answer any of their questions.



Very angry Nikita



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Andrea Bullrich  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:58
Member
English to Spanish
Perhaps you could give them the benefit of the doubt? Aug 20, 2002

I won\'t say it\'s the best policy, but it\'s happened to me that I\'ve posted a question and I\'ve closed it as soon as I got the answer I needed, precisely to save others the trouble of going into much research I didn\'t need. I understand your being angry (I\'ve been on your side too), but once you have a good answer, why not post it so everybody can access it from the glossary?



In general, of course, I don\'t agree with closing questions within minutes, but there may be exceptions.



Andrea


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xxxxeni
English to Russian
+ ...
I know how you feel Aug 20, 2002

Believe me, Nikita, I know how you feel. I guess it happened to all of us. But... try to look at it from the Asker\'s point of view. If the question stays open for a couple of days the Asker will receive about 12 answers and half of them won\'t be even close. It is not unheard of either, is it? Maybe making your own black list is the only possible solution ... I don\'t know.

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Trudy Peters  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:58
German to English
+ ...
It makes me angry, too! Aug 20, 2002

I\'ve seen questions closed within 10 minutes!

It deprives not only the asker, but the rest of us of more - and potentially better - answers. It will also result in a better glossary, provided the asker chooses the best answer!



Even if the asker decides to accept the first answer, s/he should leave it open for at least 8 hours to give translators in other time zones an opportunity to respond.

S/he may change her mind after seeing other answers.



Thanks for listening! Now I feel better )



Trudy


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Nikita Kobrin  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 05:58
Member (2010)
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Once you have a good answer, why not post it so everybody can access it from the glossary? Aug 20, 2002

Dear Andrea,



1) I was too angry.



2) As far as I understand the KudoZ system nobody will be able to access my \"outstanding\" answer from the glossary for that simple reason that nobody will enter it into the glossary. You can find in the glossary only those terms (answers) which have been entered there by Askers or by pros-winners.



Nikita



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Andrea Bullrich  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:58
Member
English to Spanish
Use of the glossary Aug 20, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-08-20 19:31, NIKITA KOBRIN wrote:

As far as I understand the KudoZ system nobody will be able to access my \"outstanding\" answer from the glossary for that simple reason that nobody will enter it into the glossary. You can find in the glossary only those terms (answers) which have been entered there by Askers or by pros-winners.





Hi Nikita,



This is not necessarily so. I use the glossary a lot, but each and every time I open the KudoZ questions related to each entry. In this way I can check out other answers, who has agreed or disagreed with what and why, reference sources, explanations... You miss out on a lot if you just look at what\'s been entered. And when I enter my answers in the glossary I often add \"(see context)\" or \"(see references)\" or \"(see explanation)\" or \"(see question for more possibilities)\" so as to let others know that there\'s more to the question than the glossary can show due to space limitations.



Try it!



Andrea

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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:58
English to Spanish
+ ...
Research Aug 20, 2002

I am tempted to ask this: Why are people doing 20 minutes of research to help someone else with their translations? Give them what you know, and if you do not know the answer, then just pass it up and go on to the next question.



A quick trip to a nearby dictionary or Google to confirm what you already suspect is OK, but beyond that, each translator is expected to have (and use) good research skills before asking for help from their colleagues.



My opinion on doing research that others should be doing for themselves is \"no way\".


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xxxxeni
English to Russian
+ ...
I scratch your back, and you'll scratch mine :) Aug 20, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-08-20 20:54, fronterizo wrote:

I am tempted to ask this: Why are people doing 20 minutes of research to help someone else with their translations?




I scratch your back, and you\'ll scratch mine Maybe that\'s why? This time I\'ll do it for you and next time somebody else will do it for me? This day may never come but it is still nice to know that somebody is there for you.

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-08-20 22:13 ]


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Nikita Kobrin  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 05:58
Member (2010)
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Back scratching & 6 wrong answers out of 12 Aug 20, 2002

Dear Ksenia,



Quote: \"If the question stays open for a couple of days the Asker will receive about 12 answers and half of them won\'t be even close.\"



As I\'m not a total outsider, I know a little bit about the art of translation and usually it\'s not so difficult for me to decide which answers are close and which are not. The more I have the better. Sometimes the final variant which goes into my translation is in fact a mix of two or even three answers and I can only regret that I can\'t divide KudoZ points between several people whose answers were most helpful.



Ksenia, your back scratching metaphor is great!



********************************************



Dear Henry,



Quote: \"My opinion on doing research that others should be doing for themselves is \"no way\".



Then what is this KudoZ system for? For answering such questions as \"What\'s the Russian for \'Hello\'\"?



Being a professional translator I know WHERE and HOW to search. But sometimes when I\'ve got a strict deadline and lots of things to do I simply don\'t have enough time to search myself. And I go to ProZ and ask my colleagues who are not busy at the moment to help me. And doing so I DO hope that they will do a proper research before answering.



Nikita



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-08-21 00:36 ]


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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:58
English to Spanish
+ ...
Please don't misunderstand, Ksenia & Nikita Aug 20, 2002

I don\'t want you to have the impression that I\'m uncharitable. You do not work in my language pairs so you cannot be expected to know this, but I always invite my colleagues (personally, apart from Proz as well) to consult with me at any time. And consult they do, and I am always pleased to be of assistance. I try to offer them the best of my expertise, and if it\'s a personal consultation and I do not know, I\'ll try to suggest some sources. If it\'s Proz then I\'ll pass because I know someone else will come up with a good answer. There is no lack of talent.



I do feel that the greatest thing we each have to offer is our own personal wealth of experience, for it is something that is unique to each of us and here we can share it. But if the question requires research, then it is research that can and should be done by the asker, for only in that way can the asker truly learn and become wealthy in his or her own right. Moreover, it is part of the job they are being paid to do (paid well, I hope).



When they\'re really stuck, I\'ll always do my best to pull them out of the mud... always have, always will!



But I don\'t carry anyone else\'s load, and I do not expect anyone to carry mine for me.



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Elías Sauza  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 21:58
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Our reward Aug 21, 2002

It happens many times. Not only that questions are closed while we carry out a comprehensive research, but also that some answers chosen are not the best. However, we get our reward by gaining knowledge through compiling information for a question, don\'t we?



Elías Sauza


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Jacek Krankowski  Identity Verified
English to Polish
+ ...
Agree with Andrea, Ksenia and Elías: KudoZ is for the convenience of the Asker Aug 21, 2002

What you describe, Nikita, happens all the time and the right conclusion should be: Do not tilt at windmills.



Yesterday, someone asked what is \"voyant\" in the context of \"balises et bouées\". I said tentatively \"signal\" but could not lay my hands on the right maritime dictionary until today when I came up with \"topmark.\" Mine being the only answer, the asker had closed his question in the meantime, before seeing my \"topmark\" answer. Believe me, being dissatisfied myself, I would have followed up on my original answer even without the 3 points earned along the way because, as Andrea says, the whole history of a question is sometimes more important than the final glossary entry. Plus, I encourage members of my SC to let me know about obvious cases where glossary entries should be amended. So remember, glossary entries can be amended. In cases less obvious but equally strong, we sometimes reopen the discussion on the Polish Forum, under the heading KudoZ Arbitration.



So, don\'t get discouraged! The fact is (and no bans will change it) that those who get there first with their answer stand much better chances of being rewarded. Call it psychology, nature of KudoZ, whatever. What I see some people do is secure their place at the top by first giving a tentative answer and than continuing with their research and adding notes.



Happy researching!

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-08-21 11:55 ]


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Karlo Heppner  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 20:58
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Same experience Aug 22, 2002

Well, recently I had the same problem.

The answer had been chosen already some hours later, the question closed.

At first sight it was the correct answer, but having a closer look, one could see, that it was not exactly what the original said.

So I sent my doubts and the new solution to the person that had put the question.

And I was frustrated. Because it´s more work to do it this way. Because the questioning person had already closed the question.(Well, it is also a bit annoying not to get the points, although it´s not the most imoportant thing)

I think there is no necessity to do so.

Closing the question should only be possible after 2 days. Time enough for anyone to contribute. If I have a look at questions, I can normally decide, if it´s worth looking for a better answer or not. So I am the one to decide (I take the risk), if I want to invest my time.

And the asker can also decide among 12 answers which ones could suit best.

Well, my suggestions: The system of kudoz should make it impossible to close the question before 2 days.

There should be a possibility to distribute points among several persons.

A word in respect to the kudoz glossary. I also think that the majority only looks at the entry and is not willing or does not dispose of the time to take a closer look at the discussion.

So it should be tried by all means to get the best quality entries.

Still, as a matter of fact, sometimes the asker is not qualified enough to choose the right answer because of a lack of experience or a lack of differentiation ability in general. It´s pity , but it is like that.

Greetings to everybody, especially to Nikita.

Karlo


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Trudy Peters  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:58
German to English
+ ...
The record was broken tonight! Aug 23, 2002

Someone graded within *2* minutes!!! Three more answers came in post-grading, among them the correct one. It was too late to even agree with the right one.



Trudy


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xxxvesparosa
Local time: 04:58
Italian to English
Chill out everyone :-) Aug 25, 2002

What exactly is the problem here? KudoZ is for the benefit of the asker, so when you are given an answer you like, then why not take it? Okay, so perhaps wrong answers are put into the Glossary, but the glossary, as with ANY WEB OR INDEED PAPER PRINTED RESOURCE should be taken with a pinch of salt. I NEVER trust dictionary entries 100% -I\'m sorry but this forum topic seems to have been blown out of all proportion.



Valium anyone?


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