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Should points be awarded for Easy Kudoz questions?

Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:46
French to English
Jun 1, 2001

Quote:


On 2001-06-01 08:24, Anonymous wrote:

Jon Zuber here; still can\'t log in.



This continues a discussion begun in the more general Kudoz questions forum.



If Easy questions are by definition \"those which any bilingual would be able to answer\" and Kudoz points \"serve to demonstrate expertise\", I don\'t see how awarding points for Easies can be justified.





Being able to answer a posting which any bi-lingual person [moot point] would be able to answer, is a starting point. If you can answer these then it shows that you may have the wherewithal to make it through the next stages. It serves to show that you have this ability, that you are at home in the foreign language. Above and beyond are the pro questions. Certain \"foreigners\" with specific knowledge and experience may be able to answer questions which native speakers might not have the first idea about. Just as some rotten speakers may have the technical vocabulary in a field where they have professional experience.



Put both together and you have a set of tools with which some interesting things can be done.





[ This Message was edited by: nikscot on 2001-06-01 09:06 ]

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Angela Arnone  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:46
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
Jun 6, 2001

This is going to be an ongoing debate! Why do we have to shut the door in the face of someone who is asking (politely) how to say something in a language they don\'t know?

I still think that if you don\'t want to answer, just leave it, but why get cross about it?

It is very true that all of us have our skills and expertise - I get praised by some clients and kicked in the butt by others - but it\'s still good ole me writing. Just that the source can be of different qualities as can your concentration or inspiration when you do the job.

I\'ve seen people who still make unspeakable errors in English (there/their) despite the quality of the translated text being very high.

There was a recent squabble between myself and another translator over key fob. That\'s a mundane expression for me, but for someone else it was \"look it up in the dictionary time\" and to complicate matters further, it is now an expression being used for an electronic device, so fireworks ensued!

None of us is a bottomless pit of knowledge and a nice word I found under the letter \"H\" in my dictionary is \"humility\"...

Ciao

Angela



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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 15:46
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Jun 14, 2001

I suggest to award 1 to 4 BrowniZ points, rather than KudoZ for easy questions.

Answering on voluntary basis to easy questions is very kind but it is not, in any respect a proof of professional expertise in that particular language combination.

It is definitely not comparable to some ansers to very specific and \'difficult\' questions.

Grading the reward accordingly is more than fair.







[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-06-20 06:07 ]


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xxxeurotransl
German to English
+ ...
Jun 14, 2001

I agree with the previous postings: easy questions should be allowed (including, \"I love you\" type of questions), but no KudoZ points should be awarded - BrowniZ is fine, though.



What should be eliminated are questions that keep repeating themselves (sometimes several times on a single day - \"voulez-vous coucher...\") and questions of a sexual nature (such as those posted by school kids).



KudoZ, after all, is primarily a service for translators to exchange terminological assistance - giving teenagers a \"kick\" was not the original idea behind it.


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xxxeurotransl
German to English
+ ...
Jun 14, 2001

And this in support of Angela\'s terminological \"woes\": I also have a key fob - standard issue at my building.



There are 2 worlds: the real, physical, world and the world of dictionaries. In English-speaking countries we use many words and terms (and not just slang, but words of general use and language) that will never find their way into dictionaries. Someone who does not live in an English-speaking country will never know these words. So, as Angela said, be \"humble\" and accept the fact that your dictionaries don\'t know everything - there is a lot more out there than meets the eye ...


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Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:46
French to English
Jun 14, 2001

Gianfranco\'s answer suddenly seems to be a perfect solution. It had never even crosssed my mind. Go for it!







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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 14:46
SITE FOUNDER
Jun 14, 2001

Quote:


On 2001-06-14 14:03, nikscot wrote:

Gianfranco\'s answer suddenly seems to be a perfect solution. It had never even crosssed my mind. Go for it!





Votes for or against?

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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 15:46
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Jun 15, 2001

The whole problem would be deciding what is easy and what\'s not.

Would a Chinese Russian translator easily go from \"Je t\'aime\" to \"I love you\"? Such phrases could show up virtually anywhere, just like any other.



Incidentally, being new to Proz, some of my first Kudoz were from explaining in English the meaning of something that was in English to someone who was trying to translate it to Danish, which is far beyond my linguistic variety. (I couldn\'t utter a word in Danish to save my life!)



I guess the Kudoz are compensation for the goodwill to take the trouble of really helping others. Keep in mind that they are awarded by the asker, and not simply given away for participation.


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 15:46
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Jun 16, 2001

Quote:


On 2001-06-15 14:43, Johel wrote:

The whole problem would be deciding what is easy and what\'s not.

Would a Chinese Russian translator easily go from \"Je t\'aime\" to \"I love you\"? Such phrases could show up virtually anywhere, just like any other.



...snip...



I guess the Kudoz are compensation for the goodwill to take the trouble of really helping others. Keep in mind that they are awarded by the asker, and not simply given away for participation.





I am fairly new to ProZ too, but it seems to me that the system works quite well regarding the easy/pro attribute.



1. The askers make often the correct choices.

2. Moderators and bouncers (users with over 100 KudoZ) can bump up or down asker\'s choices.



Obviously, having the ProZ attribute awarding kudoz and the easy attribute for BrowniZ makes this choice more important.





I would like to put forward another small suggestion about the point system.

I suggest to give more consideration to the BrowniZ. For example, awarding 1 KudoZ point for every 10, 15 or 20 BrowniZ (the exact weight to be decided)



After all BrowniZ demonstrate active participation to the site, translating the site interface, peer-grading other users answers, etc...



Finally, another word about the admission to asking questions.

In my opinion, anonymous askers should be allowed to EASY level only.



All these suggestions are aimed at making the questions & answers even more professional and interesting, as they were originally supposed to be, avoiding a number of abuses or nuisances.



[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-06-16 02:48 ]

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Giovanna Graziani  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 20:46
Member (2002)
German to Italian
+ ...
Jun 18, 2001

Well done, Gianfranco!

Great suggestions!



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xxxJon Zuber
Spanish to English
+ ...
Jun 18, 2001

Awarding BrowniZ rather than KudoZ points for Easy questions sounds reasonable to me. I\'m for it.

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Tatjana Aleksic, MA  Identity Verified
English to Serbo-Croat
+ ...
Aug 7, 2001

I too agree with Gianfranco\'s suggestion! Only BrowniZ should be awarded for Easies, but askers should be advised to make a clear distinction between Easy and Pro questions, which is rarely the case in my Serbian/English sub-community.

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Andrea Bullrich  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:46
Member
English to Spanish
Sep 23, 2001

Hi!

I\'ve been asking and answering Kudoz questions for less than two months, so my experience is pretty limited, but here\'s what I think:



Quote:


On 2001-06-14 20:03, Henry wrote:

Quote:


On 2001-06-14 14:03, nikscot wrote:

Gianfranco\'s answer suddenly seems to be a perfect solution. It had never even crosssed my mind. Go for it!





Votes for or against?





I don\'t think awarding Browniz for easy Kudoz questions is fair. At least in my language combinations (English>Spanish, Spanish>English) there are many questions posted as easy that actually call for a lot of creativity and translating experience. One good example is a question posted today, \"harvard\" (no capital H), but there are many others. Many times difficult questions are posted as easy because the asker cannot tell the difference (\"something any bilingual person will know\" is not \"something any bilingual person will know how to translate\"). Other times, easy questions are posted as difficult. We cannot change this because the askers would have to be translators to know the difference (and even when we translators ask, we sometimes misjudge questions because we lack knowledge of a specific field).

I think that awarding the same points for easy or pro questions is unfair, though, so I propose to give a different number of Kudoz to each, say 1-4 for easy questions and 5-8 for pro ones.

However, if this system is adopted, I think you should limit bouncing rights (although I would lose them myself!). Ideally, I think only moderators should have bouncing rights, or else questions could end up being bumped up and down all the time. Since moderators are already pretty busy, another possibility is to give bouncing rights to people who have many Kudoz points (say, more than 500 or 1000), or a given number of points earned in the last few months, or a high number of Browniz, or some other system that will limit access to this function.

On the other hand, I don\'t think turning Browniz into Kudoz would be fair either. How does introducing a new member or filling in a survey compare to solving a complex technical or medical question? The difference between Browniz and Kudoz is very clear, and I think it should remain that way: even the most active participation and the best will to cooperate will not teach anybody how to translate.

I hope my suggestions will help. Kudoz are an already wonderful tool, but there\'s always room for improvement!

Andrea Bullrich
[addsig]

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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:46
English to Spanish
+ ...
Browniz mean more than some colleagues think. Dec 19, 2001

I hOn the other hand, I don\'t think turning \"Browniz into Kudoz would be fair either. How does introducing a new member or filling in a survey compare to solving a complex technical or medical question? The difference between Browniz and Kudoz is very clear, and I think it should remain that way: \".



It all depends on how these browniz have been awarded. Personally, I got most of my browniz through the translation from English into Spanish of a great part of this site. In that case I think those Browniz are even more valuable than the Kudoz earned through translating words or short phrases of not more than two or three words.

Besides, what are Browniz really useful for? So far, I have never benefitted from having them and I do have a lot.



I also think that it is going to be really hazardous to decide whether a question is easy or not. Some questions appear to be very difficult, but in many cases all the answerer needs to have is a bunch of good and up to date dictionaries. Is the answerer going to get 4 kudoz for opening a dictionary and writing what he has read on it? Because never mind how difficult the term in question may be, the fact is that all it takes is opening a good dictionary and looking up for the word or expression. Is this more valuable than answering an apparently simple question without the need to refer to a dictionary? Who is going to decide on that? The asker? Boogy man?



Some days ago, some colleagues asked me how they could translate \"cuenta mancomunada\" into english. I was surprised because I consider that to be a fairly easy translation. And when I wrote \" joint account\", two colleagues told me that they had never seen the term in english and that they did not know how to translate it. Two months ago, other colleagues told me they thought the term \"Guys\" was only used when referrig to MEN or boys. When I told them that you can address women and girls as \"GUYS\" they were indeed surprised. So the question remains: What is difficult and what is easy? For certain colleagues the use of GUYS and the translation into \"Joint account\" was difficult, not to say impossible. Perhaps because they do not live in an english speaking country? In any case, it is doubtful whether we can draw a line between easy and pro.



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vjtrans
United States
Local time: 11:46
Romanian to English
+ ...
Give less points for easy questions Dec 19, 2001

Rather than giving them a grade of between 1 and 4 give them a choice between 1 and 2 or just 1 KudoZ point.



After all, people are still taking the time to answer the easy questions and should be rewarded for it. Giving them BrowniZ points somehow (in my eyes anyway) is demeaning answerers by telling them that it does not help them as much to answer those types of questions. What may happen is people will stop answering easy questions all together if they feel it does not help them as much as KudoZ questions will.


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