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Are there still ProZ problems?
Thread poster: Armorel Young

Armorel Young  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:35
Member (2004)
German to English
Nov 2, 2002

The homepage says that normal KudoZ service is restored, but I\'m not finding that to be the case. I can view KudoZ questins, but the \"propose an answer\" box has vanished, so the only way I can reply to a question is by putting a comment in the agree/disagree box under someone else\'s reply. Frustrating, because I\'d like to suggest some answers myself! Are other people having the same problem?



I\'m also puzzled by the fact that, some time before the recent crash, the oportunity to reply to people who had suggested answers to me disappeared from my screen - I am sure it used to be there, and I can see that other people are doing it, but either I am going mad or I don\'t have the facility to do it.



I suffer severe withdrawal symptoms when Kudoz is not available, so look forward to resumption of normal service!


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JCEC  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 23:35
Member
English to French
Still a few glitches Nov 2, 2002

I have observed similar glitches:



Unable to answer

Partial display

Unmarked graded questions

No display although there is an answer

...



These hard times for all of us Kudophiles make us appreciate even more what Henry and his team are providing to the translation community.



Keep up the good work Henry !



We will be patient...



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-11-02 18:13 ]


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 23:35
SITE FOUNDER
Oddities are a result of (1) lost data and (2) new caching system Nov 2, 2002

Some data was lost. In some cases, you are not given the option to answer a question, because that question was already answered and graded, and is therefore deemed closed. The problem is that the answer got destroyed, so it looks open!



In other cases, an email notification went out for, say, a Russian question. You follow that link to find an Italian question. Why the switch? Because the Russian question was erased, and when someone later asked an Italian question, it took the slot of the Russian one. Your email notification and the ProZ.com database got out of step.



Problems like this can not be fixed, the data is lost, so you will have to bear with us for a few days on those.



But there are some new bugs related to a caching system we implemented to reduce load on our backup db. This system takes a snapshot of a kudoz question every few minutes. Rather than going directly to the database, the kudoz viewing program first look for the presence of a snapshot. If a snapshot exists, that is used, instead of \"fresh\" database data. This explains why for the last few hours, you may have entered peer comments and not seen them appear. They went into the database alright, but they are not yet in the snapshot!



This second form of problem is a design flaw. We are addressing that and other issues now. To bypass the snapshot system, click the reload text at the top of the kudoz page.



(For technical people actually paying attention to what I am saying, note the odd situation where the snapshot contains more data than the db...this is because what was once captured is now gone from the db.)



Henry


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Rowan Morrell  Identity Verified
New Zealand
Local time: 16:35
Member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
Workaround for Proposing Answers Nov 2, 2002

Although the \"Propose an Answer\" button has disappeared, I have discovered that it is still possible to propose an answer by clicking on \"Add a Comment\". So if you do that, you should be able to propose your answer as usual.



Somewhat more annoyingly, the \"Choose a Winner\" button has disappeared. But I think it may be possible to work around this too, by accessing the question from an e-mailed answer notification. That takes you straight to the page of your question where you choose winners. But if you access the question directly from the site, you can\'t grade it, because there\'s no \"Choose a Winner\" button any more.



Hopefully these two hints will ease some of the frustration as the KudoZ system gets back to normal.



Best Regards



ROWAN MORRELL

(WriteWord Translations)


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:35
English to German
+ ...
No workaround for grading Nov 3, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-11-02 23:50, WriteWord wrote:

Although the \"Propose an Answer\" button has disappeared, I have discovered that it is still possible to propose an answer by clicking on \"Add a Comment\". So if you do that, you should be able to propose your answer as usual.



True - that\'s something to be sorted out (probably as simple as changing the link label).



Quote:


Somewhat more annoyingly, the \"Choose a Winner\" button has disappeared. But I think it may be possible to work around this too, by accessing the question from an e-mailed answer notification. That takes you straight to the page of your question where you choose winners. But if you access the question directly from the site, you can\'t grade it, because there\'s no \"Choose a Winner\" button any more.



Have a look at the right of the question - there\'s a \"Grade it\" link.

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Rowan Morrell  Identity Verified
New Zealand
Local time: 16:35
Member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
No "Grade It" Link Nov 3, 2002

On 2002-11-03 09:36, Ralf Lemster wrote:

Quote:


Have a look at the right of the question - there\'s a \"Grade it\" link.





I have looked at several of my questions, Ralf, and cannot find a \"Grade It\" button anywhere. But when I access a question from an e-mail notification, it takes me straight to the page where I can pick a winner or decline an answer. In other words, the usual \"Select this as the most helpful answer\" and \"Decline this answer\" buttons are at the bottom of each answer.



When I access the question from the KudoZ Web page or from my \"Questions Answered\" history, however, there is no \"Choose a winner (Asker only)\" or \"Grade it\" option.



Speaking of the \"Questions Answered\" history, several answers that I have graded, both before and after the crash, are showing as being ungraded. Another glitch I have noticed is that when I enter a glossary entry during grading, the entry doesn\'t get recorded and I have to revisit the question to actually make a glossary entry that is recognised by the server.



But these little hiccups notwithstanding, it\'s great to have KudoZ back again, and hopefully it won\'t be too long before everything is 100% back to normal.



Best Regards



ROWAN MORRELL

(WriteWord Translations)

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Refugio
Local time: 20:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
'Philosophical' question Nov 4, 2002

Is ProZ a club, or is it a business? The camaraderie and patience displayed is more like that of club, yet money changes hands. Maybe not enough money to have fixed these problems as quickly as a less folksy business would be expected to do. My point is, if it is a club, maybe we should have all been asked to chip in to help cover the shortfall. If it is a business, maybe having free regular memberships is a luxury we can no longer afford. A successful business needs to have emergency plans, and cashflow, in place in order to avoid the severe disruption of user services that happened this time. How many hundreds of members are there? Would a modest regular membership fee have made a difference?

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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:35
English to German
+ ...
ProZ is a community Nov 4, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-11-04 04:32, refugio wrote:

Is ProZ a club, or is it a business? The camaraderie and patience displayed is more like that of club, yet money changes hands.



Right now I see ProZ as a community - definitely more than a club, but not (yet?) a fully-fledged business. The community spirit is the single most valuable asset of ProZ.com.



Quote:


Maybe not enough money to have fixed these problems as quickly as a less folksy business would be expected to do.



Probably, although I have seen major businesses go offline for a couple of days because of technical problems. What we need to recognise is that technical problems are unavoidable - the question is how much of safety level is affordable. Let me assure you that Henry and his team are assessing these issues very seriously.



Quote:


My point is, if it is a club, maybe we should have all been asked to chip in to help cover the shortfall. If it is a business, maybe having free regular memberships is a luxury we can no longer afford. A successful business needs to have emergency plans, and cashflow, in place in order to avoid the severe disruption of user services that happened this time. How many hundreds of members are there? Would a modest regular membership fee have made a difference?



I don\'t think so - even with massive technical backup solutions you will never achieve 100% availability. In economic terms, free membership is ProZ\'s way of \"paying\" for the community asset I referred to above. IOW by imposing an entry-level payment ProZ would lose those contributors who come in to \"just give it a try\" (such as very experienced members of other language forums), but would probably refrain from joining if they were asked to pay.



Summarising: yes, the outage and associated data loss represent a serious event that needs to be looked at in detail, with the appropriate actions taken soon. But IMO it does not question the ProZ community/business model.

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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 00:35
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
A business with a club atmosphere : a nice place of work Nov 4, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-11-04 04:32, refugio wrote:

Is ProZ a club, or is it a business? The camaraderie and patience displayed is more like that of club, yet money changes hands.





I\'ve been here for more than one year and this has never happened before, may be that\'s the reason why there is so much camaraderie and patience displayed.



Quote:


Maybe not enough money to have fixed these problems as quickly as a less folksy business would be expected to do.





So you think money makes the difference ?

I don\'t know what Proz staff needed to fix every detail but I do know that this happenend on a week end, may be long in the US, I\'m not sure. And I also know that during weekends there is less traffic on the site, so that it could have been worse.



Quote:


My point is, if it is a club, maybe we should have all been asked to chip in to help cover the shortfall.





I\'m afraid I would have been unable to help in any way.



Quote:


If it is a business, maybe having free regular memberships is a luxury we can no longer afford.





Yes ! We need to find a responsable ! That might be all these people who don\'t pay. Not responsable for the crash, but responsable for the disruption length !



Quote:


A successful business needs to have emergency plans, and cashflow, in place in order to avoid the severe disruption of user services that happened this time. How many hundreds of members are there? Would a modest regular membership fee have made a difference?





You seem to think that money would have made a difference. Of course there would be less members if it was a condition to belong to this site, but I wonder if the atmosphere would be so nice.



But I guess we need people that show they are unhappy, because if not it would be a fantasy world like Disney, too nice to be true.

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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 05:35
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
E.R. Nov 4, 2002

Hi refugio,



I believe you are one of those lucky folks, who had never suffered from a computer crash, virus infection, loss of data, damaged software or/and hardware, otherwise you would know that even a normal computer user with one home PC ages has to work for hours and hours, in order to fix all troubles, apart from the eventual financial investment to replace what was damaged.... and even if one has the money, there are no shop open in Europe over weekends. Sure, emergency plans are necessary, but sometimes they do not cover everything. Even if they do, the running of an emergency plan takes time.



Giuliana



_________________



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-11-04 11:51 ]


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Monarda
Local time: 05:35
Danish to Swedish
+ ...
Kudoz question has disappeared Nov 4, 2002

A Kudoz question that I had replied to last week has vanished, probably in the data restoration process, and the link/ref.no. is now replaced by another question (in another language combination, too). I find no way to get in contact with the staff here, other than this.



The Kudoz question was (copied from the original e-mail):

New KudoZ question:

-----------------------

Term: explore your own backyard

Languages: English>Swedish

Field: Marketing

Level: easy

Asker: Milla

URL: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/301616

-----------------------



I can\'t find it in the list of questions any longer, either.



I was hoping to earn some precious KudoZ points there



Best regards,

Eva


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 23:35
SITE FOUNDER
ProZ.com is both and a business and a network of professionals Nov 4, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-11-04 04:32, refugio wrote:

Is ProZ a club, or is it a business? The camaraderie and patience displayed is more like that of club, yet money changes hands. Maybe not enough money to have fixed these problems as quickly as a less folksy business would be expected to do. My point is, if it is a club, maybe we should have all been asked to chip in to help cover the shortfall. If it is a business, maybe having free regular memberships is a luxury we can no longer afford. A successful business needs to have emergency plans, and cashflow, in place in order to avoid the severe disruption of user services that happened this time. How many hundreds of members are there? Would a modest regular membership fee have made a difference?





Good question and points. Knowing the details of what happened this time, Ralf and Giuliana have already given appropriate replies from a practical standpoint: in short, more money would not have prevented this problem. (We had built-in redundancies that I believed would be sufficient. I was wrong. So now, we are taking steps to prevent future outages of this type, and though the new configuration will not be completely foolproof--of course--lack of funds is not a factor in the upgrade.)



To answer the philosophical side of your question, I can say that I do not yet see a reason why ProZ.com can not be *both* a business and a place where \"camaraderie and patience (is) displayed.\" Though there are some instances of associations, etc., that are set up as for-profit, I do not know of any entity with exactly this mix. Maybe it can not be carried on forever--maybe we will have to choose one over the other. Anyway, over time we will find out if it was possible, because we are shooting for both!

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Gillian Scheibelein  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:35
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
I can't add a comment to my question Nov 5, 2002

I have tried several times to add an extra comment to my question - without success. Even the \"edit question\" button on the LHS doesn\'t work. Does anyone have any ideas on this problem?

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Raúl C. Waldman
Argentina
Local time: 00:35
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
My problem Nov 6, 2002

My particular problem is as follows:



1. Kudoz questions not answered: the \'propose an answer\' box is missing.

2. Kudoz questions answered but not graded: the above-mentioned box is missing.

3. Kudoz questions answered and graded: they are the only places where that box is present ... but, of course, not useful.



Is it only my problem or is it a generalized one?



Raúl Waldman.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:35
English to German
+ ...
Check out other messages and threads Nov 6, 2002

Hi...

Quote:


On 2002-11-06 00:19, RCW wrote:

My particular problem is as follows:



1. Kudoz questions not answered: the \'propose an answer\' box is missing.

2. Kudoz questions answered but not graded: the above-mentioned box is missing.

3. Kudoz questions answered and graded: they are the only places where that box is present ... but, of course, not useful.



Is it only my problem or is it a generalized one?



Raúl Waldman.



There are a couple of postings *in this thread* dealing with this very issue...



Also, please check this thread (in the same forum): www.proz.com/?sp=bb/viewtopic&topic=6126&forum=23&7

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