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Conditions for winning the campaign prizes?
Thread poster: SteveW
SteveW
Spain
Local time: 09:10
Spanish to English
+ ...
Dec 14, 2006

The current membership campaigns promises new members the chance to win a trip (or laptop, etc.), but it turns out that to enter you must have all required and encouraged fields of your profile completed. One of the encouraged fields is WWA entries. How can a new member have WWA entries? Therefore, how can a new member be eligible for the trip (or laptop, etc.)?

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Yolanda Broad  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:10
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...
Simple: it's join, then complete Dec 14, 2006

Here's the text from the home page:

"If you join or renew your membership in the next 2 days, and complete all "required" and "encouraged" sections of your profile using the new profile updater, you will be eligible to win one of these prizes..."



Yolanda


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Lorenia de la Vega  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:10
English to Spanish
+ ...
Certainly they know *someone* Dec 14, 2006

Certainly if someone joins proz.com, they're actually translators. And if they are, they must have worked with *someone* or for *someone* in the past. If they have, WWA gives you the option of entering someone's email address, and that person can make a WWA entry for them. I don't think it's too bad to ask that new members (or anyone who wants a chance at the prize) do this. It's kind of like a reference on your CV. I used one of my professors as a reference before I had much experience, someone who knew how I worked, and how dedicated I was and whether I turned in assignments on time. I'm sure they can find someone like that for a WWA entry, as well.


[Edited at 2006-12-14 19:41]


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SteveW
Spain
Local time: 09:10
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
clarification Dec 14, 2006

Thank you for replying, Yolanda. The question is whether it is fair to offer this opportunity as an incentive for new members who have little or no chance of qualifying for the prize draw (because they won't be able to complete the WWA section of their profile).
Steve


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SteveW
Spain
Local time: 09:10
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Two days Dec 14, 2006

Thank you, Lorenia. You are right that it will mostly be possible to obtain a reference. But should this "optional" (and fairly new) feature of the profile be made mandatory for the purpose of this prize draw? Why?
Also, if you happen to join in the last couple of days, will it actually be possible to obtain those references? Possibly not. But why should that exclude a new member from the draw?
Obviously this is a trivial matter, but it does still matter (a little)
Steve


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Riens Middelhof  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:10
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
thanks for mentioning Dec 14, 2006

Thanks for mentioning this Steve,

I became a member the same day the campaign started. Sent WWA reminders to all the clients I had had, some of which send me new projects on a regular basis.

Bottom line is, after one month I STILL have no WWA entries.

What can I do? Don´t tell me to refuse a job just because an outsources does not have the time (or will) to fill it in?

mmmm........


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 02:10
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
May be an unreasonable condition for new members Dec 14, 2006

I agree with Steve and Riens that this may not be a reasonable condition for new members. I think you have to have a fairly long-term and cordial relationship with a client before you feel comfortable enough to ask them for a favour, particularly if they are not familiar with proZ.com.

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Pamela Brizzola  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 09:10
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
All members should be included in the draw Dec 14, 2006

I actually don't like the way used to invite new members to get into Proz.
It seems that acquired members who have supported the site for years count less than new members.
I renewed my membership not more than a month ago, after almost 4 years of full participation, until 2008.
Why am I not eligible for the prizes?
Pamela


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 04:10
English to French
+ ...
Ditto here Dec 14, 2006

Just because I don't want to publicly display my resume and because I don't have time to add a portfolio (if a client requests it, I can supply samples and even a sample translation of their text if justified), I am not eligible for the prizes. I just renewed for five years...

What's up with that? Can staff comment on this, please? In another thread, several of us have discussed this, but site staff hasn't deemed it necessary yet to explain. Also, can you please not just wait it out this time and answer our preoccupations in a timely manner, not once the draw is done? Thanks!


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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 05:10
SITE STAFF
Our vision of the contest Dec 15, 2006

We strongly believe that our appreciated members receive a fair return for their investment in the site.

On the other hand, we have chosen to give the prizes to members who go the extra mile and enter all of the encouraged fields. Why? Because we want to encourage people to at least familiarize themselves with the profile options that are available to them. The contests have been our most effective means of doing that.

We do not consider the giveaways to be a core part of our service to members. They are just a fun way to promote events and full use of the profiles--which are core parts of our service.

Regards,
Enrique


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 04:10
SITE FOUNDER
I see your point, Pamela (and Viktoria) Dec 15, 2006

Easytrad di Pamela Brizzola wrote:
I renewed my membership not more than a month ago, after almost 4 years of full participation, until 2008.
Why am I not eligible for the prizes?

Hi Pamela!

I take your point. I can see how you would get that impression from the current campaign. But that's not our intent. (If you remember, our "trip to Edinburgh" giveaway in September was for (current) members only!)

I'd say let's include members, too, in the current drawing - but now that would not be fair to those who just joined, given the way we have presented it. What we can possibly do is do another promotion for Budapest among members after this campaign (depending). Any ideas?

Anyway, thanks Pamela, and Viktoria, for your strong support year in and year out. There is no question that without core members like you ProZ.com would not exist.


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Maria Karra  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:10
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
drawing Dec 15, 2006

Enrique wrote:
we have chosen to give the prizes to members who go the extra mile and enter all of the encouraged fields. Why? Because we want to encourage people to at least familiarize themselves with the profile options that are available to them.


As is the case in most drawings, here too there are certain conditions. I don't remember ever contesting the conditions of participation in a drawing. When I was younger I'd always get upset when reading "you must be over 18 to participate", but I never complained to anyone about it (except to my mom).

I don't have any WWA entries either because the two people I sent the request to have not responded. This means I cannot participate. I would have liked to be able to participate (I could really use a new laptop) but since I do not satisfy the conditions I cannot; and that's OK, these are the rules of the game. The prizes are a gift, an extra, they're not features of the site that I'm paying for, so I don't feel I have the right to have any expectations or express disagreement with the conditions. I've been a member for a long time and last week I renewed my membership for another three years, and yet I don't think this drawing is unfair because the length of membership is not relevant here. The drawing was set up to encourage people to fill out all the fields in their profile, as Enrique wrote above. Have I done that? No. (Is it my fault? No, but that's irrelevant. My two favorite outsourcers decided to ignore me so I have no WWA entries. C'est la vie. And I've been too lazy to upload my CV, which I admit is my fault, but for the laptop I'd definitely do it!) So I can't participate, end of story, it's as simple as that. And that's perfectly OK; maybe next time.
(And it would be nice if next time you offered an HP instead of a Dell, Henry, preferably with an AMD processor, not an Intel; I'd appreciate it. Sometime in the next couple of months would be best because I don't think I can wait much longer than that. My laptop is about to die.)

Maria

P.S. I'm joking about the HP; not joking about the dying laptop, unfortunately.


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xxx@caduceus
United States
Local time: 02:10
English to German
+ ...
necessary information vs. detailed information and things that are out of our control Dec 15, 2006

I'm glad someone brought this up, since I have another question in regards to updating/filling in my profile.

I just renewed my membership and I have received two WWA entries, one of which is from a Blueboard outsourcer. Now, my profile still shows my WWA as being incomplete. Why? Because the outsourcer in question has not yet received a WWA entry on THEIR part. Since this is completely out of my control, I feel like that's a ridiculous thing to ask for. I have done what I was asked for in regards to the campaign. Fact is that many outsourcers couldn't care less about responding to requests for WWA entries or the project history. I've actually had outsourcers tell me things like "What are you doing? Compiling a list of testimonials?". They just seem to be bothered by the fact that you are asking for feedback. The bottom line is that things that are beyond our control as freelancers, such as having to rely on outsourcers to respond, should not be part of a campaign.

And frankly, I also have a problem with posting my CV in my profile for everyone to see. Not that I have anything to hide, but I just can't agree with this fairly personal information of mine being indexed by search engines for the entire world to see. If anyone wants to receive a copy of my CV in order to find out whether I am qualified for a particular job, I feel that they should be asking for it and in return give me their contact information, so I can follow up with them. I can understand that someone may think that it would be just fab if everyone would have their CV posted, so one would be able to make an initial decision without even contacting any of those translators. But then, that's a contradiction in itself. Isn't this a site where outsourcers and freelancers MEET? Where they get IN TOUCH? What happened to communication?

In any case, I chose to be a member because I believe in this site. If I'd happen to win a prize (for which I obviously didn't qualify enough), then that would be just great. I think it's good to have campaigns and win prizes. Why not? It's great motivation to keep supporting ProZ even more, despite all the other wonderful things this site has to offer. It just seems that the staff needs to distinguish between necessary information in order to make a professional first impression and the more detailed information that should be provided later on.

My two cents. Happy holidays to you all!

[Edited at 2006-12-15 03:53]


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Agnieszka Hayward
Poland
Local time: 09:10
German to Polish
+ ...
I'm clearly a no-win. So be it. Dec 15, 2006

Renate Cisne wrote:

I also have a problem with posting my CV in my profile for everyone to see. Not that I have anything to hide, but I just can't agree with this fairly personal information of mine being indexed by search engines for the entire world to see. If anyone wants to receive a copy of my CV in order to find out whether I am qualified for a particular job, I feel that they should be asking for it and in return give me their contact information, so I can follow up with them. I can understand that someone may think that it would be just fab if everyone would have their CV posted, so one would be able to make an initial decision without even contacting any of those translators. But then, that's a contradiction in itself. Isn't this a site where outsourcers and freelancers MEET? Where they get IN TOUCH? What happened to communication?


I couldn't have put it better.

In any case, I chose to be a member because I believe in this site.


Me too. I became a member just for this reason. Period. Full stop.

It just seems that the staff needs to distinguish between necessary information in order to make a professional first impression and the more detailed information that should be provided later on.


Couldn't agree more!



Enrique wrote: We strongly believe that our appreciated members receive a fair return for their investment in the site.


I love the site, enjoy the help from my fellow translators and enjoy helping others. Yes. I guess it all lies in what you mean to be "a fair return for their investment in the site". For my part, I pay for the membership to keep a very good web site going. No ROI thoughts so far

On the other hand, we have chosen to give the prizes to members who go the extra mile and enter all of the encouraged fields.


Sure, that's what you can do. You run the site.

Why? Because we want to encourage people to at least familiarize themselves with the profile options that are available to them. The contests have been our most effective means of doing that.


I got famiilarised with the options you mentioned, and yet:
1. I will not post my CV for reasons Renate mentioned above.

2. I am not willing to post sample translations, because most of my work is either classified or subject to copyright regulations.

We do not consider the giveaways to be a core part of our service to members. They are just a fun way to promote events and full use of the profiles--which are core parts of our service.


Well, maybe I have a different understanding of fun. I don't think a "full use" of profiles as encouraged by the site will be entirely healthy to me.

Then again, maybe I'm just a grumpy old woman, haunted with paranoia when it comes to personal data protection.


Regards to all,
Agnieszka

[Edited at 2006-12-15 03:32]


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SteveW
Spain
Local time: 09:10
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
complaining Dec 15, 2006

Maria Karra wrote:

As is the case in most drawings, here too there are certain conditions. I don't remember ever contesting the conditions of participation in a drawing. When I was younger I'd always get upset when reading "you must be over 18 to participate", but I never complained to anyone about it (except to my mom).


This is not about complaining to mom. If you're going to use this sort of incentive (whatever importance you consider it to have), then it should be at least be feasible for the targets of the offer to opt for it. A person who joins today (last day), thinking it will be easy to fill out the profile, has practically no chance of meeting the requirements. He or she may well not be familiar with the required and recommended sections (after all, that's what the draw is for: to familiarize new users with their profile). And of course, the recommended sections are not required precisely because the site owners know that not all users will want to use them, for various reasons.


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