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Agency rating abuse!
Thread poster: Trudy Peters

Trudy Peters  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:48
German to English
+ ...
Jan 31, 2002

There\'s a person who rates agencies she has never worked with. I know, she rated mine, and I have never heard of this person before!

She also uses the opportunity to advertise herself. Her profile is empty.



Henry? I can provide you with the name, if you\'re interested.



Trudy


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 04:48
German to English
+ ...
That IS serious! Jan 31, 2002

Trudy,



I agree with you. Something needs to be done about the Blue Board. I have seen several cases now where agency owners rate themselves and, naturally, award themselves 5 points. And in other cases, translators rate agencies that they have never worked for (but they hand out 5 points because they would like to curry favour with them and land a job).


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 04:48
SITE FOUNDER
Please report these to us using the support request option Mar 9, 2002

No one should rate an agency they have not worked for. If you are rated by someone who has never worked for you, please report this.



In a few cases, people seem to have misunderstood and attempted to indicate their willingness to accept assignments using the Blue Board. Please report these, too.



Thanks,

Henry


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Mary Worby  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:48
Member
German to English
+ ...
Make information visible ... Mar 9, 2002

When you rate an agency, you have to tick a box saying whether you have worked for them or not. Why not make this information visible in the rating? Then we could see whether the comments are actually based on experience or not. OK, it relies on honesty to a certain extent, but it would be pretty clear to the agencies who was telling the truth and who wasn\'t!



Or is the rating not accepted if you say that you have not worked for an agency? I\'ve never tried ticking that box!



Just an idea ...



Regards



Mary


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Josephine Bacon
Local time: 09:48
Member (2004)
French to English
+ ...
Agency ratings a nonsense Apr 6, 2002

The whole idea of agency ratings on ProZ is open to abuse, including bad agencies who get a \"shill\" to say they are wonderful. I would like to recommend that this whole section be closed down. There are much more reliable ways of finding out agency reliability, especially through the various payment practices fora.
[addsig]


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 04:48
German to English
+ ...
Fully agree: the biggest nonsense around these days May 8, 2002

Ticking a box to indicate that you have worked for the agency you\'re about to rate does not mean anything. Chances are that ProZ staff will delete your rating and then accuse you of lying about your input.



This happened to me: I am not exactly proud to have to admit that I worked for a certain agency in Toronto for almost 2 years (and I have other ProZ members who can verify that I have, in fact, worked for that agency), but Jason informed me, several weeks ago and in no uncertain terms, that he thought that I was lying about my affiliation with that agency. And even though I have old invoices and witnesses to back me up, he insists on calling me a liar (and he refuses to restore my rating for that agency).



The information, in my view, would be very crucial, as more people are likely to fall victim to that agency (which is even subject to investigations by several government agencies), but ProZ has decided to withhold the information. So, if you need to find out more, contact me in private or check out TCR (I have posted this information there).



Josephine is right: shut down the entire Blue Board - it\'s a farce!

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-08 03:03 ]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:48
English to German
+ ...
I beg to disagree May 8, 2002

Although there is certainly scope for improvement regarding the Blue Board, I feel there is value in it, particularly since agencies now have a response function where they can comment on a rating they do not agree with.



IMO nasty \"tit-for-tat\" discussions can arise on any platform - some of the threads on TCR are a case in point.



Instead of just plainly calling for a shutdown, I would welcome suggestions as to what needs to be done to make it work better.


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 04:48
German to English
+ ...
Here's one suggestion, for starters May 8, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-05-08 06:38, Lemster wrote:

Although there is certainly scope for improvement regarding the Blue Board, I feel there is value in it, particularly since agencies now have a response function where they can comment on a rating they do not agree with.



IMO nasty \"tit-for-tat\" discussions can arise on any platform - some of the threads on TCR are a case in point.



Instead of just plainly calling for a shutdown, I would welcome suggestions as to what needs to be done to make it work better.





What needs to be done? For one, ProZ staff should stop calling people liars just like that. If one cannot even post a legit report on a bad agency without being branded a liar by ProZ staff (which is an actionable offence, by the way), then the whole thing needs to be shut down.



Therefore, I have removed all other ratings I have posted to the Blue Board - the Blue Board does not deserve my input, and everyone else should do the same.

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-08 12:32 ]

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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:48
English to German
+ ...
Spare me the details... May 8, 2002

Werner, I wasn\'t looking for details regarding your various conflicts with ProZ. What I was looking for were constructive comments on how to change the system so as to make it more beneficial for everyone involved.

If you have an axe to grind with ProZ, pursue your case, by all means - but let\'s keep personal conflicts separate from a functional discussion.


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 04:48
German to English
+ ...
No, Ralf, it is very valid to this discussion May 8, 2002

I am certainly not the only one experiencing this type of problem; I am just the only one to speak up.



How do you expect the BB to work well if contributors have to fear abuse and insults (not just from the agencies rated, but also from ProZ staff)??? This is a valid question, I would like to know what ProZ plans do about these problems (and that includes their internal problem of name-calling).


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:48
English to German
+ ...
Try and leave the aggro out... May 8, 2002

...the sad thing is that you may really have a point here. But unless you\'re ready to leave out the aggravation, snide remarks and incriminations (both in forum postings and private e-mail messages), you\'re never going to get your point across, I\'m afraid.



End of discussion, as far as I\'m concerned.


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conor bracken  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:48
English to Thai
+ ...
Proz hosts libelous remarks and doesn't give an opportunity to respond May 10, 2002

Dear All,



My company \"QTranslation\" recently had it\'s blueboad rating downgraded to \"4\" from \"5\" after one of our freelancers \"Wivat Chang\" graded us with a \"1\".



He\'s entitled to his opinions but he also made factually untrue and damaging statements about us, claiming we had lied about payment and claiming he had not been paid even after we had submitted documentary evidence about us.

The thrust of his complaint was that he was paid a week ot two late on two occasions. Even if that were true, he omitted to mention that he delivered his work a week late to us, causing severe damage to us, yet he still expected his payment to be made within a few weeks.

Despite Proz.com\'s comments, there is absolutely no mechanism for me to respond to or dispute his libellous remarks in any way.



Proz.com support has not responded to my requests, and continues to host false statements about my company, even though they have been warned to remove them.



Unless Proz.com takes action to remove these remarks and compensate for loss of managment time and damage to our reputation , I will seek legal action against Proz as well as the translator.



Is there anyone else with similar problems, who would be interested in joining forces? If proz.com won\'t respond the next steps are to write to their Better Business bureau and to mass email all their members.



Best Regards,

Conor Bracken

Managing Director

QTranslation




[addsig]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:48
English to German
+ ...
There is a response function...? May 10, 2002

When I check my ratings, I get a field underneath each rating where I could add a comment if I wanted to - what stops you from pointing out that the job in question was late? Don\'t you get that field?



Other than that, I fail to see how the expression of one\'s willingness to work for a given agency can constitute libel.


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conor bracken  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:48
English to Thai
+ ...
Eh, did you really read what I said? May 13, 2002

Ralf wrote:



\"When I check my ratings, I get a field underneath each rating where I could add a comment if I wanted to - what stops you from pointing out that the job in question was late? Don\'t you get that field?\"



I don\'t get that field -- and yes I am logged on under my correct user name and I have tried both Netscape and IE on multiple computers



Ralf also wrote:

\"Other than that, I fail to see how the expression of one\'s willingness to work for a given agency can constitute libel.\"



Isn\'t it amazing how people respond to postings without any attempt to read them though.



Expressing an opinion about willingness to work for an agency is not libel-- that\'s totally obvious.

I already wrote in my first posting that THAT was NOT the issue. The translator made a factually untrue and damaging statement in public which Proz refuses to retract.



He stated that we claimed we had paid him but had not done so. A factually untrue statement.













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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:48
English to German
+ ...
Sorry, but... May 13, 2002

First of all, my apologies and yes, I did not pick up on the distinction you made between the rating itself and the comment. That said, I did read what you said - after all, by pointing you to the comment field, I was trying to help you get a comment in.



With all due respect, I would have been pleased to see a somewhat more moderate tone among moderators (funny how sometimes you get things done quicker by being just a touch less aggressive...).



One thing I noted when looking at the BB again was that the rating appears to be linked to a profile that no longer exists (try clicking on the link on top of the BB ratings page - your active profile has a different number than the one the link points to). Could it be that you had a second profile at some point? At least, the apparently broken link would explain why you don\'t get the entry field that allows you to respond to any incorrect statement.



HTH - best regards, Ralf


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