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Kudoz points have disappeared
Thread poster: xxxVera Fluhr
xxxVera Fluhr  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:14
English to Russian
+ ...
Oct 4, 2003

Three hours ago I had 5215 KudoZ points.

Now I see that I have them only 5155.

I think it is a bug

Please note that in the ProZ.com Newsletter of September'29 was written :

>Your username: Vera Fluhr
>Membership level: Platinum (expires Jan 15, 2004)
>KudoZ: 5191
>BrowniZ: 15286
>Wallet balance: $0.00
>Your profile: http://www.proz.com/pro/38814

I think this proves that 5155 is an error, because 5155 is less than 5191


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António Ribeiro  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:14
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Same thing Oct 5, 2003

Vera Fluhr wrote:

Three hours ago I had 5215 KudoZ points.

Now I see that I have them only 5155.

I think it is a bug

Please note that in the ProZ.com Newsletter of September'29 was written :

>Your username: Vera Fluhr
>Membership level: Platinum (expires Jan 15, 2004)
>KudoZ: 5191
>BrowniZ: 15286
>Wallet balance: $0.00
>Your profile: http://www.proz.com/pro/38814

I think this proves that 5155 is an error, because 5155 is less than 5191



The same happened to me. Yesterday I had a total of 3054 points, today I have 3050 after wining another 4 points during the day.


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xxxVera Fluhr  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:14
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Let us hope this bug will be repaired Oct 5, 2003

António Ribeiro wrote:
The same happened to me. Yesterday I had a total of 3054 points, today I have 3050 after wining another 4 points during the day.


Thank you for your reply, António.
I forgot to tell that I also won 8 points during the day (http://www.proz.com/glossary/536921 and
http://www.proz.com/glossary/531402) but, as you can see, they are not counted.

Let us hope that this bug will be repaired very soon.


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:14
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
The score was incorrect because of an incorrect count, now fixed Oct 5, 2003

Vera Fluhr wrote:
Let us hope that this bug will be repaired very soon.


Dear Vera and Antonio,
the disappearance of a number of points could be the consequence of a bug fix that has been added yesterday.

Some questions were squashed, i.e. were not valid for some reason, but the points were still counted.

The bug has been fixed and some members may see they total score decrease.
It is most likely that this is the reason for the change in your KudoZ total.

Gianfranco


[Edited at 2003-10-05 11:05]


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xxxVera Fluhr  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:14
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
But the bug is not yet repaired Oct 5, 2003

Thank you for your reply, Gianfranco.
I think that the bug is not yet repaired.
I still have 5155 in total although I had 5191 on September'29.


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António Ribeiro  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:14
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Not yet fixed Oct 6, 2003

Vera Fluhr wrote:

Thank you for your reply, Gianfranco.
I think that the bug is not yet repaired.
I still have 5155 in total although I had 5191 on September'29.


My profile still shows the same wrong number of points.


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 03:14
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
The bug was before, now it's fixed Oct 6, 2003

Sorry for the bad news, but squashed questions were still recorded in the total kudoz.
It was a bug that has been fixed yesterday, so if you notice that you lost KudoZ you should be able to see in your answers that some of them were squashed.


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xxxVera Fluhr  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:14
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What a strange story Oct 6, 2003

Claudia Iglesias wrote:

Sorry for the bad news, but squashed questions were still recorded in the total kudoz.
It was a bug that has been fixed yesterday, so if you notice that you lost KudoZ you should be able to see in your answers that some of them were squashed.


I have lost 60 points yesterday.
Today I won 9 questions (36 points) and now have the same sum as on September'29 - 5191 points.
But I am not sure that tomorrow I will see the same number of points in my profile.
Maybe it will be less, maybe it will be zero.
Maybe somebody will squash ALL my questions, who knows ...

A very unpleasant story, indeed.

[Edited at 2003-10-06 02:06]


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Rowan Morrell  Identity Verified
New Zealand
Local time: 19:14
Member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
I too have points missing Oct 6, 2003

I have four points unaccounted for in my running total at present.

But when I add up my points totals in the eight fields, the extra four points are there!

By my calculations, I should have 3,230 points currently. Yet my running total is shown as 3,226.

I have checked and double-checked my points totals in the eight different fields, and they definitely add up to 3,230, not 3,226.

Can anyone explain this discrepancy? Is it related to the points losses others have experienced?

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.

Best Regards

ROWAN MORRELL
(WriteWord Translations)


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Vladimir Shapovalov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:14
Member (2003)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
Totals are adjusted with a slight delay Oct 6, 2003

Hi Rowan,

If I recall it correctly, the total scores shown in the Member Info rectange are automatically adjusted once per day. So, if you won those 4 points yesterday (or today) you will see the new total score changed in few hours. The scores shown by fields change immediately after you win few extra KudoZ.

Vladimir


Rowan Morrell wrote:

I have four points unaccounted for in my running total at present.

But when I add up my points totals in the eight fields, the extra four points are there!

By my calculations, I should have 3,230 points currently. Yet my running total is shown as 3,226.



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Kirill Semenov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 10:14
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
Is it OK? Oct 6, 2003

Claudia Iglesias wrote:
Sorry for the bad news, but squashed questions were still recorded in the total kudoz.


Dear Claudia,

As far as I understand, up until yesterday the graded questions which were squashed later had not affected the total sum of kudoZ point.

But after the maintance (which was announced yesterday and conducted for 10-15 minutes) squashed graded questions are not considered "valid", so the winners lost previously gained points. I'm not to discuss is it OK or not, just want to clear the situation.

Does it mean that if I would squash (and my kudoZ points total sum does allow me and many other pros to squash questions) ANY graded question, the winner will immediately lose their points for this question?

If so, it's obviously a way to abuse or revenge on kudoZ any person I do not like!
Just squash any question he or she has won -- and they lose kudoZ points !

PS. By the way, the fix is not complete, anyway. Overall sum in rating lists is the same as in the profile, but when filtering ratings according to categories (Other, Tech, Art, Medical, etc.), you still see not adjusted figures, so their sum total is NOT equal to the Overall kudoZ sum shown.



[Edited at 2003-10-06 09:25]

[Edited at 2003-10-06 09:26]


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xxxVera Fluhr  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:14
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Who and why? Oct 6, 2003

Kirill Semenov wrote:
PS. By the way, the fix is not complete, anyway. Overall sum in rating lists is the same as in the profile, but when filtering ratings according to categories (Other, Tech, Art, Medical, etc.), you still see not adjusted figures, so their sum total is NOT equal to the Overall kudoZ sum shown.


Yes, Kirill, you are right.
I have just counted my ratings (Tech, Art, Medical, etc) - their sum is equal to 5260.
But my "overall" Kudoz sum is 5196. !!!

BTW, I have found at least one squashed question:
http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&id=368515
It disappeared from my profile but I found the related glossary entry :
http://www.proz.com/?sp=gloss/term&id=835844&float=y

I would like to know WHO squashed this question and WHY ...


[Edited at 2003-10-06 23:46]


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Rowan Morrell  Identity Verified
New Zealand
Local time: 19:14
Member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
I have the same problem as Kirill and Vera Oct 6, 2003

Vladimir Shapovalov wrote:

Hi Rowan,

If I recall it correctly, the total scores shown in the Member Info rectange are automatically adjusted once per day. So, if you won those 4 points yesterday (or today) you will see the new total score changed in few hours. The scores shown by fields change immediately after you win few extra KudoZ.

Vladimir


I realise that, Vladimir, but thanks for pointing it out. My problem is the same one mentioned by Kirill and Vera - my running total (shown in the Member Info rectangle) does not match the total of the points in my fields. I guess I'm just fortunate that the discrepancy is only four points in my case - poor Vera seems the worst hit by this!

Best Regards

ROWAN M.


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Rowan Morrell  Identity Verified
New Zealand
Local time: 19:14
Member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
Points should not be lost for squashed questions Oct 6, 2003

Does it mean that if I would squash (and my kudoZ points total sum does allow me and many other pros to squash questions) ANY graded question, the winner will immediately lose their points for this question?

If so, it's obviously a way to abuse or revenge on kudoZ any person I do not like!
Just squash any question he or she has won -- and they lose kudoZ points !


I wholeheartedly agree with these sentiments. And may I add that people might now squash questions if they feel they have been robbed of points! Or as Kirill says, it could be a way to take out a grudge on someone. Ultimately, nobody wins this way, especially if big chunks of the glossary end up being lost.

Therefore, I believe that points should not be lost for squashed questions. In fact, I'd like to go further and say that once a question has been graded, it shouldn't be possible to squash it. By all means, let's have the power to squash ungraded questions in cases of repetition, abuse of the system etc., but once a question is graded, it should stand for all time, and certainly the points the person has won should remain permanently on their record. Otherwise, it just gets far too messy, especially if people start squashing questions to deny their fellow ProZians points as a result of personal vendettas.

So please, let's have our lost KudoZ points back and continue on as before, and squash this notion of losing points for graded questions that have been hidden later.


PS. By the way, the fix is not complete, anyway. Overall sum in rating lists is the same as in the profile, but when filtering ratings according to categories (Other, Tech, Art, Medical, etc.), you still see not adjusted figures, so their sum total is NOT equal to the Overall kudoZ sum shown.


This is exactly what has happened to me as well. I have tried updating my points total by clicking on my BrowniZ points page and then going to another page, and it worked as usual when I won points today. But the four points that I'm missing from my running total are still absent and sadly missed.

Best Regards

ROWAN M.


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:14
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
How the system counting KudoZ totals works Oct 6, 2003

Rowan Morrell wrote:
...
Otherwise, it just gets far too messy, especially if people start squashing questions to deny their fellow ProZians points as a result of personal vendettas.
...


Dear Rowan,
this is not likely as the name of the member squashing a question is recorded alongside with the reason, that must be provided.

If the reason is not valid, the question can be un-squashed and the person inappropriately squashing can be stripped of the ability to squash.

You know that the system is based on a large amount of trust, with many members trusted to help the site staff to perform maintenance functions in several aspects of the site (KudoZ, Forum, Jobs and BlueBoard).

Glossary maintenance, removing inappropriate questions, upgrading/downgrading questions from Easy to Pro and viceversa, are all tasks performed by active members, and the system, by and large, works fine.

If all this had to be performed by staff or by dedicated people it would absorb many full-time employees, while the site has adopted a community voluntary approach that benefits everybody.

You are yourself trusted to perform this tasks and you have probably contributed to the KudoZ system. I personally don't know of any case such as the one that you have hypothetically described.


Regarding the total not immediately corresponding to the sum of the points, it is only a temporary misalignment.
The detailed score is recorded immediately, the totals are updated once per day.

So, for example, if a member having 4+8+12 (total 24) earns 4 more points now, to make 4+8+16, the total stays at 24 for a few hours, but when the routine updating the totals will run the total will become 28.
The routine recalculates all figures, per each person, and the leaders tables.
Each day, they are entirely recalculated.

I don't know why and when some old questions have been squashed and it could be difficult to investigate each and every single case, but they have most likely been squashed for good reasons.

The site programmers and owner had the option to keep the score or not, and for a number of reasons they have decided to void the points linked to squashed questions.

It is probably too complicated to separate squashed questions whose points should be maintained and those who shouldn't. Please be patient and allow for some semplifications in an already very complex system.

Gianfranco


[Edited at 2003-10-06 13:49]


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