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Henry, you might want to check this out
Thread poster: Ildiko Santana

Ildiko Santana  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:51
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...

Jan 30, 2003

I don\'t know if this subject falls under any of the pre-set categories, \"Dancing\" or \"Have a Look\" or \"Help\" or, maybe, ALL 3 - but, I believe Henry should join and see what\'s going on at the anti-ProZ WGP* list on Yahoo called \"translation_proz\" This can hurt your business, Henry; big time...


Ildiko V-W

*Our former member, Werner G Patels.. (Who else!!) This list should be made contemporary reading for all law students specialized in libel. Oh man...

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Nathalie M. Girard, ALHC  Identity Verified
English to French
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Look who's talking now.... Jan 30, 2003

Well, well....

And look who\'s talking *now*...

\"Ildiko\" - the VERY ONE person who *borrowed* all the TCR (payments practice list) ACCESS-RESTRICTED ARCHIVES on Yahoo, in order to post them *OPENLY* and *PUBLICLY* (not even password restricted) on her personal website last year.... for anyone on the Internet to see.

And this, WITHOUT asking anyone\'s permission (of course) to use all the Email messages (including headers/names/signatures etc...that all the members had contributed.

I, as well as many other list members threatened you back then with lawsuits for making *public* our comments which were made in the PRIVACY of a restricted-access list...

As for Werner, he received unfair treatment and was unnecessarily removed from Proz. I do not recall that you were personally involved in this whole affair, so why are you meddling in this now???

The facts stated on the translation_proz list are true (and proven online on Proz).

We also suggest ideas to improve the Proz website (and other sites) on a regular basis.

Those suggestions have also been posted on Proz by many members of the list, and this, on MANY occasions - but they often get totally ignored or are shut-down.

Telling the truth is not libel....And may I remind you that posting personal attacks on individuals to the forums is against ProZ rules.

So when will you be expelled from Proz for this \"faux pas\", I wonder???


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Roomy Naqvy  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:21
English to Hindi
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Ms. Nathalie Girard Jan 30, 2003

Dear Nathalie,

Probably, as you are unaware of the facts of the case, you may kindly say what you did about the \'wrong\' expulsion of the former member. And so, your ignorance in the said matter may be forgiven.

If you want me to write to you in private about the reasons why a certain member was expelled, you could let me know and I might be able to enlighten you further.

The matter can be treated as closed at this juncture.

Roomy Naqvy

[ This Message was edited by:on2003-01-30 14:38]

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Nathalie M. Girard, ALHC  Identity Verified
English to French
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To Roomy Jan 30, 2003

I know *very well* why he was expelled.

Henry wrote to me PRIVATELY via Email to offer me his side of the story a few weeks ago.

I genuinely accepted to hear it (and to keep it to myself on a confidential basis), but so far (it\'s been a few weeks now), Henry has not replied back with his so-called *side* of the story.

Based on what I have seen (both in public and privately from *many* sources btw), and based on the number of years that I know the particular member who has been banned...

I do not agree with the decision taken by Proz in this matter.

Am I entitled to my opinion or will I get shut-down or privately threatened for it?



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Angela Arnone  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:51
Member (2004)
Italian to English
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Dear Nathalie Jan 30, 2003

I\'m sure you won\'t get threatened privately by any of the vast number of civilised people who use this site.

Unfortunately a great many of these same civilised people have not been treated with the same sort of respect by former members (and that\'s plural) of this site.

If you are threatened in private, Nathalie, you can simply send the message on to any moderator who will deal with it on your behalf. etiquette is implemented to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but when complaints become deafening and are coming from not one or two but from many different sources, some measures will be taken. Such decisions are not taken lightly and are usually looked at in great depth by the moderator group that now consists of over 50 people, many of whom are not directly involved and therefore have a more objective perspective with regard to the problem.

I hope this \"incursion\" serves to explain to readers on the forum that any decision made recently was not made in haste or for reasons of personal dislike, but in the light of the site being the host to thousands of members.


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Nathalie M. Girard, ALHC  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
Dear Angela Jan 30, 2003

Thank you, Angela, for your reasonable and balanced input on the forum.

However, any decision that may or may not have been taken by the moderators was based on \"distorted\" facts.

The other day, we got to see Jason\'s original e-mail, explaining, in an infantile manner, the reasons for that member\'s removal.

Henry never told you guys the full truth. Instead, he chose to feed you stories of things that went down over 2-3 years ago (things which the member in question acknowledged and apologized for - publicly - a long time ago). Those apologies were accepted (also publicly), and so Henry was clearly in the wrong to dig up old stuff to sway your decision (*if* that\'s what he did).

But even that \"old stuff\" was not that \"nasty\" when looked at in perspective - that member (and others) had to defend themselves *repeatedly* against personal attacks and insults.

In fact, they got into trouble for doing so... (self-defense is now \"illegal\"???).


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 07:51
This is a legal matter; no discussion will be allowed here Jan 30, 2003


I like and respect you. And I am indebted to you for your kind introduction.

However, as regards Werner Patels, you have heard, and are spreading, incorrect information.

When the moderators voted not to accept Werner\'s request for reinstatement, I merely forwarded his request to them. I did not add so much as a word of my own opinion.

That is all I will say on this issue, which I now consider to be a legal matter. You are welcome to continue using this site, I have nothing against you. But if you are waiting for further explanation from me, I am afraid it will not be forthcoming. Sorry.

I am closing the thread.

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