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Is a gender-specified job posting allowed here?
Thread poster: xxxjsl
xxxjsl
Local time: 09:10
English to Japanese
+ ...
Apr 17, 2003

A follow-up: the nature of the job doesn\'t seem to require women; it\'s just looking for an office worker.



[ This Message was edited by: daisuke on 2003-04-17 16:17]


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Bob Kerns  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:10
Member (2002)
German to English
What job are you talking about? Apr 17, 2003

Your message makes little sense without a reference to the job in question.

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Steffen Pollex  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:10
English to German
+ ...
Yes, please explain Apr 17, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-04-17 16:40, RKKerns wrote:

Your message makes little sense without a reference to the job in question.



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xxxxeni
English to Russian
+ ...
Evidently they are allowed. Apr 17, 2003

I remember at least one job offer in E-R/R-E pairs where the requirement was: male, up to 35 years. There was absolutely nothing in the job description to support this requirement. I posted a remark about that job offer in one of the Russian forums, however nobody responded which obviously means nobody was shocked or even just interested.

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xxxjsl
Local time: 09:10
English to Japanese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Oops! Apr 17, 2003

Sorry, I thought that I added the information above, but I actually erased the original message. My original message was:



Is a gender-specified job posting allowed in ProZ.com?



http://www.proz.com/job?id=35089



Although everything is written in Japanese, the outsourcer clearly explains that they need a woman or womens (either single or married). I do not see that gender makes any difference in the nature of the job.



Daisuke



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xxxwind
Local time: 01:10
Italian to Japanese
+ ...
and I remember someone else... Apr 17, 2003

looking for a MALE Japanese interpreter recently, somewhere in the States. I think it\'s totally against the equal opportunities practices. I wonder why it had to be a male... or female in the ad you pointed out.

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Sara Freitas
France
Local time: 01:10
French to English
This is common in some countries Apr 18, 2003

Daisuke,

I don\'t know about Japan, but in France it is common in job ads to specify if the employer is looking for a man, a woman, or either. How that applies to ProZ, which is in the U.S. is another issue. I personally don\'t really like questions of age, gender, or other personal matters coming up in job ads, but in France these are perfectly acceptable criteria.

Regards,

Sara

[ This Message was edited by: SFM on 2003-04-18 10:27]


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Marc Kuypers
Local time: 01:10
Russian to Dutch
+ ...
Not legal in Belgium Apr 18, 2003

Daisuke,



According to Belgian law any job offer must be open to men and women. It is illegal to specify that the job is open to to men or women only



Best regards

Marc


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Vincent MAELSTAF
Local time: 01:10
English to French
Not an accepted practice Apr 18, 2003



t in France it is common in job ads to specify if the employer is looking for a man, a woman, [...] in France it is a perfectly acceptable criteria.



...I am very much surprised at Sara\'s comments regarding recruitment practice in France. There is not such thing as common discrimination upon gender and this is plainly against the law to do so.



FYI



Vincent


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xxxSimplyMe
English to German
There IS a difference. Apr 18, 2003

Women and men are quite different - that\'s nothing new.

Women and men think different - that\'s nothing new, too.



If I\'d like to have a brochure written about e. g. shoes - I\'d NEVER ask a man to do this.



If I\'d like to have a brochure written about maintanance of cars or computers - I\'d NEVER ask a woman to do this.



And if I\'d like to have a secretary - I\'d never ask a man if he\'d like to do that job.



For sure there are exceptions, there are man who think a bit more like women - and vice versa. But this are minorities.



If an outsourcer wants to have a job done by someone of a specific gender - it\'s HIS (or HER) choice.



It\'s quite \"modern\" to have everything handled equally for men and women. But it just does not make sense everywhere.



Just respect it. )


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Arnaud HERVE  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 01:10
English to French
+ ...
Difficult question Apr 18, 2003

A few months ago we had a call for the translation of a gay website, asking for gay translators.

I considered it illegal from the formal point of view and I warned Henry about it, on the other hand I fully admitted they were right to think a homosexual would be better for translating gay phrases and so on.



In some professions, you HAVE to take the gender into account, like recruiting a boxing manager or a model.



In other cases, it would be abusive to request a gender, like when recruiting a math teacher.



Translation abilities don\'t have a gender, or at least from the primary point of view, and in that sense you might feel there is discrimination if the other gender is preferred. It is also a danger for the general economy, because abilities are refused.



Apart from genders, in some cases you look for abilities that you cannot really write in a public document. How can you say you want a physically impressive woman for the security staff, and not a very thin one. That would not be strictly legal.



Well, embarrassing subject, sometimes the law is so square that we have to \'interpret\' it.



On the other hand, because France is quoted here, we have many occurences of recruitment by astrology or things like that, and that is really abusive.





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Sara Freitas
France
Local time: 01:10
French to English
Take a look at any "Help Wanted" section of a French newspaper or at Monster.fr Apr 18, 2003



On 2003-04-18 07:56, maelstaf wrote:

Quote:


t in France it is common in job ads to specify if the employer is looking for a man, a woman, [...] in France it is a perfectly acceptable criteria.



...I am very much surprised at Sara\'s comments regarding recruitment practice in France. There is not such thing as common discrimination upon gender and this is plainly against the law to do so.



FYI



Vincent





Vincent,

I sure do hope that there are laws against this. Discrimination exists in every country and I know that things are being done in France to fight it. But you only have to look at any help wanted section or employment website to see \"H\" (Man) \"F\" (Woman) or increasingly \"H/F\" (either m or w, I hope this means that women are encouraged to apply for traditionally male positions) and also listings like \"AssistanTE de direction\" etc. Why does an administrative assistant need to be a woman?

Even if there are laws against discrimination, you still see this kind of thing very frequently.

Thanks for the info, Vincent!

Sara



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xxxxeni
English to Russian
+ ...
There should be a policy Apr 18, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-04-18 13:23, SFM wrote:

...Even if there are laws against discrimination, you still see this kind of thing very frequently.





The same in Russia. There is a law against discrimination but somehow it does not work - you can see ads with requirements of gender or age everywhere. I\'m sure that the people who place them don\'t even know that this is against the law. The more so, PROZ being an American site should have a policy against it. Maybe some employers will learn something? That would be nice.

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xxxxeni
English to Russian
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There should be a policy - 2 Apr 18, 2003

And of course I don\'t mean such jobs as \"male/female voiceover\", I think we all understand what it is about.

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Gillian Scheibelein  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:10
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
you have rather old-fashioned views SimplyMe! Apr 18, 2003

There are plenty of female computer experts and car mechanics - even the US Air Force employs female aviation mechanics, and there are plenty of male secretaries these days.



Surely, it is for the outsourcer to decide which translator should be awarded the job after looking at credentials and experience. The fact that the outsourcer isn\'t broadminded enough to post correspondingly is his/her problem, but it doesn\'t prevent us answering the posted job if we feel able to carry out the work competently.



Regards and a Happy Easter to everyone,

Jill


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