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Classic jobs vs. Connect jobs (vetting of jobs to be transferred to ProZ.com staff)
Thread poster: Ralf Lemster

Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:19
English to German
+ ...
Jan 16, 2009

Good evening all,
You may be aware that a dedicated team of volunteer moderators has been looking after 'classic' job posting for several years now, checking that contact details posted are complete and consistent. (Note that not all classic jobs are subject to vetting - conditions for 'whitelisted' jobs are described here).

Jobs posted via the Connect interface are not subject to the same level of monitoring. Jobs moderators have proposed to integrate the vetting process for classic and Connect job postings; so far, ProZ.com staff have not yet made a decision in this respect. (I would be interested in hearing members' views on this.)

Therefore, if you are contacted via the Connect platform, please take extra care to make sure the outsourcer has provided full and accurate contact details.

Best regards,
Ralf

[Edited at 2009-01-19 21:06 GMT]


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Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:19
Member (2003)
German to Dutch
+ ...
I'm really surprised about this Jan 16, 2009

Hi Ralf,

I would have expected that 'premium jobs' were offered by premium outsourcers.

Of course you know the member's view: the more checking the better.

Couldn't it be that ProZ.com staff is so convinced about the quality of Connect outsourcers that vetting each separate job would be superfluous and that it would ruin the whole click & pick idea behind the monitor?

Regards,
Gerard


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:19
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
My job posted on the "Connect" platform was just deleted - without reason Jan 16, 2009

I posted two jobs a couple of days ago, one for a proofreader via the normal system, and one for translators via the "Connect" system. The proofreading job did not need vetting, appeared quickly, and I got plenty of responses. The job for translators, posted on the "Connect" platform, never appeared. A note came up saying that the job posting had to be vetted, and, instead, the job was deleted from the system and never shown.

Astrid

[Edited at 2009-01-16 23:28 GMT]


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Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:19
Member (2003)
German to Dutch
+ ...
Don't take it personally Jan 16, 2009

Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:

I posted two jobs a couple of days ago, one for a proofreader via the normal system, and one for translators via the "Connect" system. The proofreading job did not need vetting, appeared quickly, and I got plenty of responses. The job for translators, posted on the "Connect" platform, never appeared. A note came up saying that the job posting had to be vetted, and, instead, the job was deleted from the system and never shown.

Astrid


Hi Astrid,

This surely had nothing to do with your credentials - do you know that your portfolio looks garbled in IE7? You probably forgot to pay the Connect fee in advance and ProZ.com probably forgot to check this at some stage in the process.

Regards,
Gerard


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:19
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The original concept changed Jan 17, 2009

Hi Gerard,

I would have expected that 'premium jobs' were offered by premium outsourcers.

That was the original concept when Connect was first launched. In April 2008, ProZ.com decided to change the focus of Connect, from a 'premium' platform into one that is generally available. We had an announcement in the moderators' forum, but I'm not sure whether this was ever announced publicly. Henry?

Of course you know the member's view: the more checking the better.

Now that would be my assumption. But even if I knew, this wouldn't help much: please do not hesitate to make your view heard.

Couldn't it be that ProZ.com staff is so convinced about the quality of Connect outsourcers that vetting each separate job would be superfluous

Again, that was the original idea. Now you don't even need to be a member to post a job on Connect. Consequently, there is no quality check applied to outsourcers using Connect, nor do they need to pay anything.

and that it would ruin the whole click & pick idea behind the monitor?

It wouldn't, as directory searches have never been subject to vetting.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Niraja Nanjundan  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:49
German to English
Sorry to ask a stupid question, but.... Jan 17, 2009

Ralf Lemster wrote:

In April 2008, ProZ.com decided to change the focus of Connect, from a 'premium' platform into one that is generally available.

Now you don't even need to be a member to post a job on Connect. Consequently, there is no quality check applied to outsourcers using Connect, nor do they need to pay anything.



...if this is the case, what is now the difference between a classic job posting and a Connect one?


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 09:19
SITE FOUNDER
Staff members have been vetting Connect jobs Jan 17, 2009

Hi all,

To clarify: at the moment, there are two separate platforms for posting jobs and searching the ProZ.com directories: the "classic" one (which has been around since 1999), and the newer "Connect" one (which is technically superior and is gradually replacing the older system).

Both platforms access the same profile data, but otherwise they are separate creations from the ground up.

Policy-wise there are a number of similarities:

* In both systems, posting and searching is open to both members and non-members.
* In both systems, job postings are subject, under certain conditions, to vetting. (in contrast to directory searches, which in both cases is not.)
* In both systems, the primary purpose of vetting is to ensure that the job posting system is being used for its intended purpose (as opposed to being used to offer one's own services, for example.)
* The fact that job postings are sometimes subject to vetting does not in any way guarantee that any outsourcer using the platform is reliable or that it can / will pay for work completed by a person contacted via the platform.

In other words, both platforms are essentially open. Determinations regarding the desirability of a potential business counterpart are left to be made, in principle, by users.

As for the differences (which gave rise to this thread):

* Vetting of job postings made to the "classic" platform has been done primarily by (volunteer) moderators.
* Vetting of job postings made to the new "Connect" platform is being done by (paid) ProZ.com employees.
* The vetting processes and systems are not exactly the same. Furthermore, differences in approach are apparent between the two groups.

Vetting the large number of job postings is a demanding job and I think it is appropriate that the role be turned into a paid position.

Ralf and the job vetting team are to be thanked for their tremendous commitment and contributions over a number of years.

Henry


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:19
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Differences Jan 17, 2009

Thanks for the explanations, Henry.


* In both systems, the primary purpose of vetting is to ensure that the job posting system is being used for its intended purpose (as opposed to being used to offer one's own services, for example.)
* The fact that job postings are sometimes subject to vetting does not in any way guarantee that any outsourcer using the platform is reliable or that it can / will pay for work completed by a person contacted via the platform.

Agreed, in principle...

In other words, both platforms are essentially open. Determinations regarding the desirability of a potential business counterpart are left to be made, in principle, by users.

...in the classic Jobs system, the team of volunteer Jobs/Blue Board moderators has ensured compliance with a certain level of transparency, notably by

- enforcing that job posters provide the required scope of truthful information about themselves; and
- preventing those outsourcers with several non-payment complaints against them from posting further assignments.


As for the differences (which gave rise to this thread):

* Vetting of job postings made to the "classic" platform has been done primarily by (volunteer) moderators.
* Vetting of job postings made to the new "Connect" platform is being done by (paid) ProZ.com employees.
* The vetting processes and systems are not exactly the same. Furthermore, differences in approach are apparent between the two groups.

Correct. For example, I have observed that ProZ.com staff are more tolerant regarding the provision of insufficient, inconsistent and/or incomplete contact details. As I said above, I will leave it to ProZ.com members to judge what level of compliance with site rules they want and demand.

Vetting the large number of job postings is a demanding job and I think it is appropriate that the role be turned into a paid position.

I have no objections; in fact, it's a logical development - provided that ProZ.com staff maintain the quality level established by our team for classic Jobs and the Blue Board. We have offered our assistance time and again, and as far as I'm concerned, we'll continue to do so.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Niraja Nanjundan  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:49
German to English
Role of jobs moderators Jan 18, 2009

Thanks for the clarification on the difference between classic and Connect job postings.

As far as the role of jobs moderators is concerned, I have two more questions:

- Do jobs moderators also send the job notifications for classic job postings to members?

- When I apply for a job advertised in a classic job posting, can the jobs moderator concerned see my application?

I expect that site staff would be able to do the above, so that they can help us out if we send a support request regarding a job, but can a jobs moderator also take on this role?

I unsubscribed to job notifications for classic job postings quite some time ago and don't apply to them and only very occasionally respond to a Connect job posting, so I'm just asking out of curiosity.

Thanks.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:19
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Jobs moderators do not have access to applications Jan 18, 2009

Hi again, Niraja,

As far as the role of jobs moderators is concerned, I have two more questions:

- Do jobs moderators also send the job notifications for classic job postings to members?

No, that's an automatic process. For jobs requiring vetting, this process is triggered by the approval made by a moderator.

- When I apply for a job advertised in a classic job posting, can the jobs moderator concerned see my application?

No; applications are only visible to the outsourcer (and to ProZ.com staff, of course - but they wouldn't look into those unless requested to do so, e.g. in the event of a technical problem).

HTH, Ralf


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