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Thread poster: Doru Voin

Doru Voin  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 14:10
English to Romanian
+ ...
Mar 22, 2004

First, this is not to say I do not agree with colleague Williamson (see "Bravo Zulu" thread, same forum): it would be interesting having this information available.

What I consider even more interesting would be having information available for the bad payers as well, i.e. agencies rated "1" to be acknowledged as such in the BlueBoard system...I even think regular members (non-Platinum) should not pay Brownis to see this information.

Just a thought resulted from seeing recently more agencies rated as bad payers in Blue Board placing more jobs through Proz.com.

Regards from Bucharest,
Doru Voin

[Edited at 2004-03-22 13:33]


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Uwe Kirmse  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:10
Polish to German
+ ...
Why not to pay with BrownieZ? Mar 22, 2004

I am a non paying member, and I have to pay for bidding and for BB informations with BrownieZ. Those informations have a certain value for me. If I don't pay Platinum fee, I should do something else for ProZ.com, what is awarded with BrownieZ, and that's okay. Why should someone take profit from ProZ.com not giving from himself anything?

PS: And it's so easy to earn BrwonieZ. Lots of members give a lot of agrees (without comments of course) to answers, they don't even understand.

[Edited at 2004-03-22 13:52]


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 08:10
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Precisation Mar 22, 2004

uwe wrote:
...Lots of members give a lot of agrees (without comments of course) to answers, they don't even understand.
...



Hi Uwe,

I agree with your main point (the information available on the Blue Board are virtually available to any site member, at the cost of 50 BrowniZ points) but I would like to clarify better your final sentence.
Clearly you are not supporting the practice of placing agrees everywhere to amass BrowniZ points, but your sentence can be seen as slightly ambiguous.

To clarify better: peer grading (placing agree/disagree, or a neutral comment associated to a KudoZ answer) is a mechanism introduced to provide extra help to the askers, to guide them in choosing the best answer using the opinions offered by several colleagues.
Peer-grading without criteria is misleading and, even worse, it creates for the members acting in such way, the image of being careless, taking profit from the community resources without giving anything back.

On top of that, any systematic behaviour in that direction can be seen by the site staff and/or moderators who can block those members from the ability to peer-grade in the future, or even delete all BrownieZ points acquired in the past. All of them!
This site is made of the sum of all our knowledge and contributions, but any form of easy or childish "cheating" is a loss for everybody and cannot be tolerated.

I'm saying this not for you, Uwe, but just in case somebody reads your words and has the inspiration for misusing the peer-grading features...

bye
Gianfranco



[Edited at 2004-03-22 14:09]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:10
English to German
+ ...
Report proven non-payers to Jobs moderators Mar 22, 2004

Doru,
A couple of points regarding the issue of non-payers:

Just a thought resulted from seeing recently more agencies rated as bad payers in Blue Board placing more jobs through Proz.com.


Remember that BB ratings are not only based on payment practices - a negative rating might just as well be based on other aspects of the business relationship.

You may be aware that ProZ.com operates a Termination Policy, which is enforced by Jobs moderators. Very recently ProZ.com have added a note to the rating form that advises those entering a 1 or 2 rating of the option to notify moderators of non-payment.

Best regards, Ralf


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Uwe Kirmse  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:10
Polish to German
+ ...
To clarify better: Mar 22, 2004

Gianfranco Manca wrote:
...Clearly you are not supporting the practice of placing agrees everywhere to amass BrowniZ points, but your sentence can be seen as slightly ambiguous.


I see, you've understood me very well

...I'm saying this not for you, Uwe, but just in case somebody reads your words and has the inspiration for misusing the peer-grading features...


This problem is so well-known and has been discussed so many times, that there's nobody, who would need this inspiration for misuse. Those, who misuse the features, will go on doing it, and I think, others won't follow them. There are othedr ways to earn BrownieZ, too. My words were no inspiration, but just a bit sarcastic.

[Edited at 2004-03-22 15:21]


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Doru Voin  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 14:10
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Termination Policy Mar 22, 2004

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Remember that BB ratings are not only based on payment practices - a negative rating might just as well be based on other aspects of the business relationship.

You may be aware that ProZ.com operates a Termination Policy, which is enforced by Jobs moderators.


Hi Ralf,

Thank you for your reply.

Of course grades are granted taking into account other criteria as well, but non-payment is the most important one. I haven't seen any cases in BB of granting an "1" for "miscommunication" or "agency pushed the deadline too hard". I don't say there aren't such reports, just that I haven't seen them. And of course granting a "1" to an agency and not providing comments is another problem. (In between, this final problem could be solved by forcing some one entering a ranking to provide comments).

However, my point was:
1/ in my opinion, information on bad payers is more important for translators than information on good payers;
2/ it would be useful to restict somehow the posting of jobs by bad payers. I am aware that Proz.com has to respect some principles and obligations. I've looked over the Termination Policy. Seems good enough - and I wasn't aware of it till now, I confess. One question: an agency that has its account terminated - is it allowed to post more jobs? Because if it is allowed, the measure is futile, imho.

Regards,
Doru Voin


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:10
English to German
+ ...
Banned outsourcers are not allowed to post jobs Mar 22, 2004

Hi again,
2/ it would be useful to restict somehow the posting of jobs by bad payers.

Which is precisely what we're doing.

I am aware that Proz.com has to respect some principles and obligations. I've looked over the Termination Policy. Seems good enough - and I wasn't aware of it till now, I confess. One question: an agency that has its account terminated - is it allowed to post more jobs?

Of course not. (Bear in mind that we have also put in place blocks on outsourcers who are not members of ProZ.com.)

That said, we can never be 100% certain that they don't create an anonymous new profile, trying to sneak back in. But so far, we've been able to identify the majority of such attempts.

Best, Ralf


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Doru Voin  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 14:10
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Nice to hear that Mar 22, 2004

Ralf Lemster wrote:
we can never be 100% certain that they don't create an anonymous new profile, trying to sneak back in. But so far, we've been able to identify the majority of such attempts.

Great. Thank you for pointing this out.

Best regards,
Doru Voin


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