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'First World Client' posing as 'Third World Client' to lower rates...
Thread poster: ROCHA-ROBINSON

ROCHA-ROBINSON  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 00:42
Member (2004)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Mar 31, 2005

Not really sure where to post this or if this has been posted before:

What if any, are opinions on a client 'posing' as a Third World Proz.Com user in order to lower the rate offered and then when you check their IP address... it turns out they are based in Miami, USA?

I'm not too bothered about losing out on the rate as I should have checked the BB or asked for a PO, but as it was only a page I wasn't too bothered.

Just seems to me to smack of a certain lack of outsourcer 'honesty'... especially when the said party is using Proz.Com in order to secure freelance work under arguably 'false' pretences.

Anyone else had a similar experience?

Food for thought...

Happy translating!

Steve Robinson
www.proz.com/pro/78313


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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 05:42
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
Moving this thread.. Mar 31, 2005

to the ProZ.com Jobs Systems forum.

Magda


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 06:42
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Why lower rates even to real third-world customers? Mar 31, 2005

This trick can only work, if we let low-salary countries deliver cheap translations. But why should we play their game? If we live in First-World countries we should stick to First-World rates.

We should not be afraid that translators from low-salary countries can deliver first-quality jobs. That may be true with most other skills, not with native translations, not even for English. X country girls will never be able to deliver first-quality translations other than perhaps into X, no matter how long you train them. So there is no reason why we should give any discounts to customers from low-price countries.
Or am I missing something?

Regards
Heinrich

[Edited at 2005-04-01 19:31]


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Lucinda  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:42
Member (2002)
Dutch to English
+ ...
I would not worry about it, Steven. Mar 31, 2005

Heinrich is right. I do not see the competition.

People who deliver top quality will demand top pay no matter where they live.

Happy translating!

Lucinda


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ROCHA-ROBINSON  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 00:42
Member (2004)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
...not referring to rates 'per se'... but abuse of Proz.Com Mar 31, 2005

I wasn't referring as such to differential rates 'per se' - as it is pretty clear and fair, that a client locally here in Brazil expects and is charged 'local' rates, from a translator and/or outsourcer based locally.

Rather, the practice of 'outsourcing' work via Proz.Com from a client and outsourcer in a First-World country, to a freelance translator situated in a 'Third-World/Developing' country under the pretence that both client and outsourcer are in fact based in a neighbouring 'Third World/Developing' country - ie: using Proz.Com as a shield for contracting work at 'local' prices.

I fully agree that you get what you pay for. However, a two-tiered system of prices does exist - local and international - like it or not. South American outsourcers stipulate rates around a 1/3 of international ones - obviously, you take that which you agree to.

It just seems somewhat unfair to offer work from 'XXX' in South America, when you are in fact 'XXX' based in the USA - with the excuse that local [ie: South American] rates apply.

Even more unfair, to hide behind Proz.Com when doing so...

Thanks for the opinions given so far...anyone else?

Happy translating!

Steve Robinson
www.proz.com/pro/78313


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Guillermo de la Puerta  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:42
German to Spanish
+ ...
Never seen that before Apr 1, 2005

I had never seen that before and but I would like to make some questions:

Suppose the translator is based in Miami and offers translations from English into Portuguese but most of his clients are brazilians that live in Brazil.

Can these brazilians afford american rates?

What should the translator do in this case?Apply brazilian rates and have a large amount of clients at a low rate? Apply american rates and lose perhaps 90% of his clients? Be honest and let USA based translators-competitors "share" perhaps a 5% of that amount of clients that can really afford american rates?

Just a doubt.

Kind Regards willdlp


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Guillermo de la Puerta  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:42
German to Spanish
+ ...
If that is the case... Apr 1, 2005

STEVEN ROBINSON wrote:

I wasn't referring as such to differential rates 'per se' - as it is pretty clear and fair, that a client locally here in Brazil expects and is charged 'local' rates, from a translator and/or outsourcer based locally



It just seems somewhat unfair to offer work from 'XXX' in South America, when you are in fact 'XXX' based in the USA - with the excuse that local [ie: South American] rates apply.

Even more unfair, to hide behind Proz.Com when doing so...

Thanks for the opinions given so far...anyone else?

Happy translating!

Steve Robinson
www.proz.com/pro/78313



If he is really concealing the fact that he lives in the USA and pretends he is in Brazil that is not very honest

Regards willdlp


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Mark Xiang
Local time: 11:42
English to Chinese
+ ...
Anyway, Cheating is not acceptable. Apr 1, 2005

I would suggest you report it to Henry, the founder of the site, or any staff member, or a job moderator.

Mark


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:42
English to German
+ ...
Contact jobs moderators Apr 1, 2005

Thanks, Mark,
I would suggest you report it to Henry, the founder of the site, or any staff member, or a job moderator.

Very good point indeed.
If you have any suspicion regarding the contact details quoted in a job, contact a Jobs moderator, quoting the URL of the job and substantiating your suspicions. TIA!

Best regards,
Ralf


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Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 09:12
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
No training needed, thank you Apr 2, 2005


We should not be afraid that translators from low-salary countries can deliver first-quality jobs. That may be true with most other skills, not with native translations, not even for English. X country girls will never be able to deliver first-quality translations other than perhaps into X, no matter how long you train them.
Regards
Heinrich

[Edited at 2005-04-01 19:31]


I would disagree with Heinrich on the point that non native translators can never equal or excel native translators when translating into the native language, even English. I know of many Indians, including myself!, who can handle English with a felicity that few Englishmen can match.

I fail to grasp what he means when he refers to country girls and providing training ("no matter how long"!)...

Or is it that my English is too poor and I cannot understand Heinrich's point?

One thing I can say, many of us can do quite well, thank you, without training from the likes of Heinrich.

Regards,
Balasubramaniam


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 05:42
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Different rates for different clients, but be careful about location Apr 8, 2005

STEVEN ROBINSON wrote:
What if any, are opinions on a client 'posing' as a Third World Proz.Com user in order to lower the rate offered and then when you check their IP address... it turns out they are based in Miami, USA?


I have different rates for first and third world clients, so to me it would matter.

However, you can't deduce a client's location based on his IP address. For example, I'm a South African (third world) whose web site is hosted by an Indian company (third world) whose primary name servers are in the United States (first world) and Spain (first world). If you check my IP address, therefore, you'd deduce that I'm from a first world nation... which is incorrect.


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