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young is as young does...
Thread poster: Susana Galilea
Susana Galilea  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:56
English to Spanish
+ ...
Feb 1, 2006

"We are ideally looking for a young female NY-based interpreter whose mother tongue is Spanish who has an interest in fashion..."

Taken from a posting currently appearing in the job section. A similar issue was raised not long ago in the Italian forum http://www.proz.com/topic/41426

Is this kind of request from an outsourcer allowed at Proz? And if it's not, would it be possible to clearly state that in the form outsourcers have to complete in order to post a job?

All feedback appreciated.

Best,

Susana

[Edited at 2006-02-01 18:18]


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 09:56
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Would you please send the job No. to me Feb 1, 2006

privately via my profile?

Please also note, that not all jobs published on ProZ did require vetting. In any case we do not allow sex-conditioned job postings, unless the outsourcer is able to clearly demonstrate the reason.

TIA,

Uldis

And yes- I found the job, consulted with one of my fellow jobs' moderators (apart from one, who vetted it) and it seems to us that the request is fairly reasonable- to " interpret consecutively hair styling lessons"... - I myself wouldn't undertake to do it in my native language

Uldis

Susana Galilea wrote:

"We are ideally looking for a young female NY-based interpreter whose mother tongue is Spanish who has an interest in fashion..."


[Edited at 2006-02-01 18:57]


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Susana Galilea  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:56
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
will do Feb 1, 2006

Uldis Liepkalns wrote:

Would you please send the job No. to me

privately via my profile?



Hi Uldis,

It's on its way, thanks much.

Susana

P.S. I guess you were able to locate it, so I won't be sending you the info. Thanks, Uldis.

[Edited at 2006-02-01 19:09]


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Yolanda Broad  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:56
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
Job poster has been asked to repost, substantiating the requirement Feb 1, 2006

There is, indeed, an "equal opportunity" requirement for job postings on ProZ.com. Since jobs, once vetted, cannot have content removed from them, I have removed the posting and requested that the job poster either repost without that specification, or provide solid substantiation of the specification.

And, for future reference, please contact a jobs moderator when you notice something askew in a job posting: the discussion with reference to specific job offers is outside of the purview of the Forums section of ProZ.com

Yolanda Broad


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Susana Galilea  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:56
English to Spanish
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Thanks, Yolanda Feb 1, 2006

Yolanda Broad wrote:
And, for future reference, please contact a jobs moderator when you notice something askew in a job posting: the discussion with reference to specific job offers is outside of the purview of the Forums section of ProZ.com

Yolanda Broad



I am aware of that, and I was careful not to post the link to the specific job (the link was to the specific thread in the Italian forum). Is quoting the contents of a posting also inappropriate?

All best,

Susana

[Edited at 2006-02-01 19:32]


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Susana Galilea  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:56
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
interesting... Feb 1, 2006

Uldis Liepkalns wrote:
And yes- I found the job, consulted with one of my fellow jobs' moderators (apart from one, who vetted it) and it seems to us that the request is fairly reasonable- to " interpret consecutively hair styling lessons"... - I myself wouldn't undertake to do it in my native language



I would

I am not an interpreter, but if I worked in that field I want to believe my background, experience and personal interests would determine what kind of jobs I am qualified for...not my age or gender. The exact same elements that qualify or disqualify a translator for a particular project.

Curious about my colleagues' input.

Susana


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 09:56
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
I'm afraid you wouldn't Feb 1, 2006

after you'd see the hairstyle of my son

But yes, I agree there might be males capable of describing that. Haven't met one, though...

Uldis

Susana Galilea wrote:
I would


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Yolanda Broad  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:56
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
Jobs search function Feb 1, 2006

Actually, it is possible to locate a job by a string from its content: that's how I figured out which job you were referring to.

Yolanda

As for hair stylists and interpreters: there are plenty of each in both genders, as a matter of fact. However, I translate for a famous hair products Website, and it seems that all their famous hair stylists are male. One of the services that Website publicizes are the hair styling courses given by its star (male) hair stylists. (Maybe there's a gender problem for *females* in the hair styling world?) [Maybe I should have left that ad up after all, and let us females get a crack at hair styling classes, too?]


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xxxsarahl
Local time: 23:56
English to French
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Gender is probably irrelevant Feb 1, 2006

Uldis,

I'm a conference interpreter and a female, but I wouldn't take that job, I wouldn't be qualified.

By the way, my stylist is a man.


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Susana Galilea  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:56
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
next time... Feb 1, 2006

Yolanda Broad wrote:
Actually, it is possible to locate a job by a string from its content: that's how I figured out which job you were referring to.



...I'll be sure to paraphrase


Yolanda Broad wrote:
(Maybe there's a gender problem for *females* in the hair styling world?) [Maybe I should have left that ad up after all, and let us females get a crack at hair styling classes, too?]



This is an intriguing proposition, allowing postings based on their revolutionary merits

Susana


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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 08:56
Member (2004)
English to Polish
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It is a bit different with interpreting Feb 1, 2006

Susana Galilea wrote:

I am not an interpreter, but if I worked in that field I want to believe my background, experience and personal interests would determine what kind of jobs I am qualified for...not my age or gender. The exact same elements that qualify or disqualify a translator for a particular project.

Curious about my colleagues' input.



Hi Susana,
There is a bit more factors important where it comes to hire an interpreter. And definitely there are situations where things like gender, age or even physical fitness matter. And against to what most people believe it is NOT about whether man or woman is capable or incapable to interpret, but about human relations. Frequently client will prefer one interpreter over another only because client perceives a voice of one interpreter NICER. You may argue that voice is less important then knowledge and experience, but people who will be listening to an interpreter for many hours or days pay attention to such details. Another example which comes to mind is obviously in medical interpreting and other similar very personal situations where clients do have preferences of what type of person they will deal with. And I think they have right to it. Why should they spend days with someone they feel uncomfortable with?

Sometimes, of course, the requirements are unreasonable or unjustified, but often they only seem so. I remember a few years ago a client requested a consecutive interpreter for a series of visits and meetings and asked for a short person ... the agency was shocked and wanted to refuse the whole contract, until the client explained that the visiting person is himself very, very short plus has hearing difficulty so listening to someone who is much taller then him makes him uncomfortable. Now, would you say that a request for a short interpreter was justified or not?

Magda


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Rosa Maria Duenas Rios  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:56
Why would you have to be a young female to "interpret consecutively hair styling lessons"? Feb 1, 2006

Uldis Liepkalns wrote:
seems to us that the request is fairly reasonable- to "interpret consecutively hair styling lessons"... - I myself wouldn't undertake to do it in my native language

Uldis

[/quote]

I wonder... Does it mean that "old men" cannot interpret consecutively in the hair styling field professionally and efficiently?

Thankfully, Yolanda has asked the outsourcer to repost...

As for the one brought up by an Italian colleague a while ago, I remember they were looking for a good looking bilingual hostess for a fair in Milan, not precisely a translator or interpreter. In this second case, and knowing the "latin culture", I would be more inclined to accept the "good looking" condition as a requisite.

But then again, Magda, I guess the key is to substantiate the requirement.

[Edited at 2006-02-01 20:22]


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PB Trans

Local time: 07:56
French to English
+ ...
Fairly reasonable? Feb 1, 2006

Uldis Liepkalns wrote:

And yes- I found the job, consulted with one of my fellow jobs' moderators (apart from one, who vetted it) and it seems to us that the request is fairly reasonable- to "interpret consecutively hair styling lessons".


Fairly reasonable? Many hair stylists are male, you know. I'm sure there are many male interpreters who are perfectly qualified for this job. I agree with Susana, the candidacy should be based on experience and skills, not gender. I don't know about anywhere else, but in Canada, it is a violation of the Human Rights Code to post a job that is gender biased, unless it can be proven that it is an absolute requirement for the job. To me, this job posting is not a requirement but merely a preference.

[Edited at 2006-02-01 21:32]


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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 08:56
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
:)))))) Feb 1, 2006

Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:

Uldis Liepkalns wrote:
seems to us that the request is fairly reasonable- to "interpret consecutively hair styling lessons"... - I myself wouldn't undertake to do it in my native language

Uldis



I wonder... Does it mean that "ugly men" cannot interpret consecutively in the hair styling field professionally and efficiently?

Thankfully, Yolanda has asked the outsourcer to repost...

As for the one brought up by an Italian colleague a while ago, I remember they were looking for a good looking bilingual hostess for a fair in Milan, not precisely a translator or interpreter. In this second case, and knowing the "latin culture", I would be more inclined to accept the "good looking" condition as a requisite. [/quote]

Aren't you reading more then it was really written?

The job ad mentioned by Susana didn't say anything about being "pretty" or not - they wanted "young female".

The second job you mentioned was squashed precisely for the reason that it was NOT a translation or interpreting job.

Magda


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