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New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators
Thread poster: Enrique Cavalitto
justin C
justin C
United States
Local time: 13:32
English
Only outsourcer wwa entries are shown in the feedback box Jun 26, 2006

Hi Walter,

Only WWA entries from outsourcers are shown in the feedback box on the profile page (as indicated by the "Outsourcer WWA").

Hope this explains it,

Best Regards,
Justin


 
Walter Landesman
Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 14:32
English to Spanish
+ ...
Justin Jun 26, 2006

but you have the option to give your feedback as
1. outsourcer
2. collague I worked with.
How`s that?


 
Walter Landesman
Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 14:32
English to Spanish
+ ...
Justin 2 Jun 26, 2006

...and there is also the option "make it public", which I ticked. How is that public if it is not shown?

 
justin C
justin C
United States
Local time: 13:32
English
When the "Outsourcer WWA: +x / x / -x" is clicked, all feedback is shown Jun 26, 2006

Hi Walter,

When you clicked the link that says "Outsourcer WWA: +x / x / -x", a popup is shown with all feedback a user has received (including colleague feedback).

Best Regards,
Justin


 
Walter Landesman
Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 14:32
English to Spanish
+ ...
Justin3 Jun 26, 2006

justin wrote:

Hi Walter,

When you clicked the link that says "Outsourcer WWA: +x / x / -x", a popup is shown with all feedback a user has received (including colleague feedback).

Best Regards,
Justin

Ok, Justin, I see.
However, the title is "Outsourcer WWA: +x / x / -x", that `s what makes the confusion. How can anybody know the translator has any feedbacks from colleagues if it says +0/0/-0/?

Maybe, a possible solution, state only "WWA" in the title or make two entries: one for outsources and one for colleagues.
Otherwise, colleagues feedbacks will be missed.

Best,

Walter


 
Ivana de Sousa Santos
Ivana de Sousa Santos  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 17:32
French to Portuguese
+ ...
I can't see the point of continuing to disagree on this new feature. Jun 26, 2006

Even if we are having a trial run first, from what I have perceived of all the posting I've read since the beginning there is no use to continue on disagreeing with the feature because:

1) Most people who participated were against it

2) Only a few people said to set up a trial run

The choice of Proz.com was to hear the minority and still do a trial run. In my opinion, the decision was made since the very beginning and this feature is going to be implemented
... See more
Even if we are having a trial run first, from what I have perceived of all the posting I've read since the beginning there is no use to continue on disagreeing with the feature because:

1) Most people who participated were against it

2) Only a few people said to set up a trial run

The choice of Proz.com was to hear the minority and still do a trial run. In my opinion, the decision was made since the very beginning and this feature is going to be implemented even if we disagree.

As some of my colleagues stated, I'm not sure if I want to pay for this "priviledge" of being rated in my profile.

I'm really disappointed with this feature. This is a site for TRANSLATORS. I usually refer to proz.com to people who don't know it as "a place where translators from all over the world meet, share opinions and help each other".

When I make an entry on the BB, I'm usually thinking about helping my other translator colleagues in their decision to work or not with a certain agency.

A new potential client has got several other ways of knowing about my work (translation tests; referees); they don't need to see some feedback in my proz.com profile.

As for me, I won't bother my clients asking them to leave feedback in my profile, anyway.

And if I'm given any kind of feedback (I still didn't understand if outsourcers can only give feedback if we ask for it) I will hide that feedback, even if it's positive. I'm not afraid of the feedback given by my clients (I am aware of my value and receive feedback directly from outsourcerts), but it will be my way of saying I DISAGREE!
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Walter Landesman
Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 14:32
English to Spanish
+ ...
Justin Plus Jun 26, 2006

Walter Landesman wrote:

justin wrote:

Hi Walter,

When you clicked the link that says "Outsourcer WWA: +x / x / -x", a popup is shown with all feedback a user has received (including colleague feedback).

Best Regards,
Justin

Ok, Justin, I see.
However, the title is "Outsourcer WWA: +x / x / -x", that `s what makes the confusion. How can anybody know the translator has any feedbacks from colleagues if it says +0/0/-0/?

Maybe, a possible solution, state only "WWA" in the title or make two entries: one for outsources and one for colleagues.
Otherwise, colleagues feedbacks will be missed.

Best,

Walter

Hey Justin,
This that I am asking is just in order to improve the feature.

Otherwise, the whole feedback from the colleague will be lost and won`t make any sense.

Best,

Walter


 
Nikki Graham
Nikki Graham  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:32
Spanish to English
Outsourcers don't need an invitation Jun 26, 2006

Ivana de Sousa Santos wrote:

And if I'm given any kind of feedback (I still didn't understand if outsourcers can only give feedback if we ask for it) I will hide that feedback, even if it's positive. I'm not afraid of the feedback given by my clients (I am aware of my value and receive feedback directly from outsourcerts), but it will be my way of saying I DISAGREE!


I have been given feedback without asking for it, so no, outsourcers don't have to wait to be invited to give you feedback. In practice, anyone can do it. In theory, only if you have worked for them.


 
Kirill Semenov
Kirill Semenov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 19:32
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
OK, I agree - delete the feature Jun 26, 2006

I vote for removing the new feature - now, when I know the moods and approaches of my fellow colleagues... Nobody protested against the Project History because it allowed us `to control everything', meaning to get only positive feedbacks. As soon as so many of us felt the draught, there is a wave of complaints. I don't think any idea of implementing a BB for Translators may be successful in such environment in the nearest future, s... See more
I vote for removing the new feature - now, when I know the moods and approaches of my fellow colleagues... Nobody protested against the Project History because it allowed us `to control everything', meaning to get only positive feedbacks. As soon as so many of us felt the draught, there is a wave of complaints. I don't think any idea of implementing a BB for Translators may be successful in such environment in the nearest future, so it's just a waste of time. `Any criticism is not accepted as soon as you pay for benefits', is the slogan here.

I propose to cancel the new feature and put an end to this culmination of `open-minded and self-responsible' forum debate.

Ditto.
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Susana Galilea
Susana Galilea  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:32
English to Spanish
+ ...
this might be where for/against mindsets diverge Jun 26, 2006

Kirill Semenov wrote:
So I see the new feature as a great challenge, which keeps me always alert about the quality of my work, not a threat to my income.


I consider my profession enough of a challenge, and my own standards and ethics keep me always alert about the quality of my work. I do not need, and do not want, any gimmicks imposed and managed by a third party, no matter how allegedly well-meaning.

Susana

[Edited at 2006-06-26 15:41]


 
Larissa Dinsley
Larissa Dinsley  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:32
Member (2003)
English to Russian
+ ...
Not quite! Jun 26, 2006

Kirill Semenov wrote:

Nobody protested against the Project History because it allowed us `to control everything', meaning to get only positive feedbacks. As soon as so many of us felt the draught, there is a wave of complaints.


Wrong again, Kirill!

I voted against the Project History as did a number of other translators (you may want to have a look at this discussion: http://www.proz.com/topic/40053?start=30&float=) and I have never used it.

Cheers


 
Kirill Semenov
Kirill Semenov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 19:32
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
Susana and Larissa, Jun 26, 2006

I've told already I vote against the new feature. I don't need it anymore. I'm convinced and converted.

Now I'm happy with my own self-importance and I don't care about any feedback from outside. Before the thread, an external feedback had meant for me learning something new about my skills and myself. Now I see it isn't important at all, and I'm pretty satisfied with my own image of myself. Many people here managed to open my eyes - and what a beautiful vision of myself lies before
... See more
I've told already I vote against the new feature. I don't need it anymore. I'm convinced and converted.

Now I'm happy with my own self-importance and I don't care about any feedback from outside. Before the thread, an external feedback had meant for me learning something new about my skills and myself. Now I see it isn't important at all, and I'm pretty satisfied with my own image of myself. Many people here managed to open my eyes - and what a beautiful vision of myself lies before me!
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Larissa Dinsley
Larissa Dinsley  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:32
Member (2003)
English to Russian
+ ...
Kirill Jun 26, 2006

No need to take it so personally.

 
Susana Galilea
Susana Galilea  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:32
English to Spanish
+ ...
ah, well... Jun 26, 2006

Kirill Semenov wrote:
and what a beautiful vision of myself lies before me!


This is as far as I care to contribute to this thread...happy Monday, Kirill (and everyone else)

Susana


 
Ramon Somoza
Ramon Somoza  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 18:32
Dutch to Spanish
+ ...
My 2 cents Jun 26, 2006

After reading the 16 pages of heated debate (yes, I DID read them) I'd like to throw in some points to this discussoin:

a) I did not find out about this new feature until now - I'm so busy that lately I do not drop in very often. A mail announcement would have been nice.

b) When I looked at it, it was disabled and there was no reference to it in my Proz page - Proz has put it now as an opt-in, which is exactly what most people asked for and what I would have expected.<
... See more
After reading the 16 pages of heated debate (yes, I DID read them) I'd like to throw in some points to this discussoin:

a) I did not find out about this new feature until now - I'm so busy that lately I do not drop in very often. A mail announcement would have been nice.

b) When I looked at it, it was disabled and there was no reference to it in my Proz page - Proz has put it now as an opt-in, which is exactly what most people asked for and what I would have expected.

c) Contrary to the majority of the posted opinions, I HAVE switched it on. First, because I'm not afraid of negative opinions from my real customers (and because I'll sue anybody who tries to simply slander me) and second because I DO think it will allow me to get more customers that are more concerned about quality than about price. Similarly, in the same way that I have rated some agencies on the BB, I think it is only fair that my customers should have the same right to post their opinions about me.

d) I'm not concerned at all about not having a feedback, specially keeping in mind that this is a new feature. It would be nice if there was a clarification that there is no feedback yet, so nobody thinks I'm hiding such feedback. I will send a nice e-mail to my customers asking for feedback (some of them actually asked me to provide feedback in the BB). If they decide to do so, it is their choice, so I have no concerns about confidentiality - it is for them to decide whether to admit that I worked for them or not.

e) I am not concerned either about other translators trying to undercut my (admittedly medium-high) rates. After all, it's a free market. I always tell my customers that if they can get the same quality and punctuality at a lower rate, then they should go for it. I'm only consequent with what I preach.

f) I disagree that only paying members should be able to post comments - but I would like Proz to prevent members with less than 6 months to post reviews - just to prevent cheating by crooks or outsiders by setting up a dummy account and immediately making an unfavourable comment. (Or a favourable one, by somebody pretending to be "good")

g) Similarly, I would like that oursourcers with a global BB score of 2 or less to be prohibited to make comments - their feedback is likely to be retaliatory. I will not complain if an oursourcer with a score of 4 or 5 says I'm only so-so, but I will very strongly object if a known crook (not that I will work for those) pretends that his non-payment is due because I'm so bad as a translator.

Overall, I'm in favour of it, but I think that some members have actually gone a little too far in their criticism. Some criticism is always good, but here it sometimes looked like pure flaming. Proz made a mistake (a big mistake, I might say) by putting this feature on by default, but at least when I saw it this error had been corrected. In that context, some of the comments that I have read are far too harsh.

I think this feature could be quite good, provided proper protection to the individuals can be ensured. I think that my two suggestions f) and g) above could filter out the worst potential sources of problems.

[Edited at 2006-06-26 21:11]
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New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators






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