| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51] > | New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators Thread poster: Enrique Cavalitto
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| Thanks, Federica | Jun 23, 2006 |
Federica Masante wrote:
I have been testing the new feature and I personally think it works like a charm! It is a nice and effective way of enhancing our profiles so I don't see what the fuss is all about.
Thanks for being open-minded about this. I see you already have three rave reviews from Blue Board outsourcers. Congratulations!
| | | | Sormane Gomes
United States
Local time: 18:14
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| Dear Kirill (and only Kirill): | Jun 23, 2006 |
Kirill Semenov wrote:
Do you like the BlueBoard? Do you appreciate it as a way to verify potential clients first, before you take up any job?
Yes, I do like the BlueBoard very much, and that is one of the reasons why I am a paying member. And yes, I do believe that outsourcers have the right to evaluate or have some feedback on translators. I just don't think it necessarily has to be here on ProZ.com, but that is another story, which I’d rather not get into now.
Kirill Semenov wrote:
t whenever I see people trying to make ProZ.com good for them, personally, not for everyone, I may become outrageous.
[/quote]
I think you missed the point of my last post. If that is the route Proz wants to take that is fine by me, and I said so. I respect the majority’s decision, but as a member, I am entitled to express how I feel things should be or my preferences, and that is what I have done. I would like to have the option of not having all these new features in my profile.
Kirill Semenov wrote:
ADDED: And please note - I'm a frelancer, not an outsourcer in any way. […]
That wasn’t my comment, so please don’t lump my comments in with others. It’s misleading and confusing. I did not make any comment about being a free-lancer or an outsourcer.
Now, I need to go back to my work. Have a good one.
Sormane F. Gomes
[Edited at 2006-06-23 14:39]
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Kirill Semenov wrote: Do you like the BlueBoard? Do you appreciate it as a way to verify potential clients first, before you take up any job? I suppose every freelancer says "Yes", because the BB lowers our risks of being not paid or face a bad client. So let's be reasonable - the same may and must be applied vice versa: outsourcers need their ways of evaluation, too. The feedback may be a great tool - and please note, it may relieve you both and all of us from those frustrating test translations. I believe it's an honest and fair approach, with both freelancers and outsourcers being in their equal rights. ADDED: And please note - I'm a frelancer, not an outsourcer in any way. But whenever I see people trying to make ProZ good for them, personally, not for everyone, I may become outrageous.  [Edited at 2006-06-23 13:54]
You haven't read my post properly, have you? I said: "We are freelancers, not agencies, and we don't have the financial resources to cope with a ruined reputation. Agencies can change their name, we can't! " This is the difference and that's why I'm opposed to it. I have nothing to fear, but you certainly know that outsourcers can't always judge a translation, especially when they don't know the language.
And for Henry: I think this measure will lead to a massive exodus of professionals from the site.
Giovanni
| | | | | massive exodus after massive exodus yet we're all still here? | Jun 23, 2006 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
And for Henry: I think this measure will lead to a massive exodus of professionals from the site.
Giovanni
Cmon guys, you keep going on about how every feature Henry & co introduce will lead to a massive exodus of professionals yet everyone's still here! I have myself criticised certain new ideas in the past and that's normal - we all like & dislike different things but please could you relax a little with your apocalyptic prophesies?
I think this feature is a good one but the issue of Blueboard retaliation is something that needs to be addressed. Nonetheless, I will certainly be using it.
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| talk about making a mountain out of a molehill! | Jun 23, 2006 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
And for Henry: I think this measure will lead to a massive exodus of professionals from the site.
Giovanni
Giovanni, sorry but that sounds like a bit of an overstatement to say the least! I wonder what makes you so certain about that. As far as I am concerned, you can't knock anything until you've tried it.
Best,
Federica
| | | | | True, Giovanni, there may be some resignations. | Jun 23, 2006 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
And for Henry: I think this measure will lead to a massive exodus of professionals from the site.
I do expect some members to leave. I hope it won't be a mass exodus, though.
I once attended an ATIO anniversary celebration. One of the founders (or early members?) talked about the decision to test members' translation ability, and how it tore the early group apart. He said that half the members quit. But he said that the decision is what made the group successful.
Feedback may have a similar affect. Some good members will leave because they don't like the system in principle. This will be unfortunate, and ironic, because the greatest beneficiaries of the feedback system will be the true professionals. (We know this from the Blue Board experience.) The existence of feedback will draw a new segment of top clients, and in turn, translators who present strong track records will stand out and win their trust.
To the professionals who would consider leaving because of feedback, I would ask you to consider that this feature is intended for you, first and foremost. Please think about the possibilities and how you could use this to expand your business and make your work easier. This is intended for you to get the credit, the standing, that you have earned.
I don't expect a mass exodus, as the ATIO apparently experienced. Why? Because there is the possibility to opt out of showing feedback.
| | | | | Freelancers' and agencies' equal rights? | Jun 23, 2006 |
Kirill Semenov wrote:
I believe it's an honest and fair approach, with both freelancers and outsourcers being in their equal rights.
But freelancers and agencies do not have equal rights
First we do the job, invest our time and knowlegde and then we are paid. In some cases we may not get paid as agencies may try to avoid paying (or have financial problems etc.). The Blue Board is just to try and save other freelancers from bad experience of non-payment.
I do not agree that there are equal rights!
| | | | | Right to reply | Jun 23, 2006 |
Henry wrote:
This is intended for you to get the credit, the standing, that you have earned.
Yes, but, will we get the right to reply in case of negative feedback? Also, I don't want other people to know who my suppliers are, so the feature will be turned off, but I will have to put a nice note on my profile explaining the reasons.
Giovanni
[Edited at 2006-06-23 15:40]
[Edited at 2006-06-23 15:42]
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| Thanks, Konstantin | Jun 23, 2006 |
Konstantin Kisin wrote:
I think this feature is a good one but the issue of Blueboard retaliation is something that needs to be addressed.
A valid concern. We will be watching for that, and will appreciate reports.
Nonetheless, I will certainly be using it.
Great. Your feedback will be appreciated.
| | | | | Yes, it is possible to reply to negative feedback | Jun 23, 2006 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Yes, but, will we get the right to reply in case of negative feedback?
Yes. Same as in the Blue Board.
| | | | Yolanda Broad 
United States
Local time: 18:14
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | It is also possible to reply to positive feedback | Jun 23, 2006 |
Might as well thank folks who appreciate you and point up *their* good points!
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 00:14
English to German
+ ...
| Concerns about approach and procedures | Jun 23, 2006 |
Henry,
Please give it a try before condemning it. You may find that the ability to display independent, thrid-party feedback in a prominent place in your profile helps to win and reassure new clients, bypass sample tests, justify higher-than-average rates, or otherwise improve your business life.
Most of those having posted critical comments - including myself - don't "condemn" the feedback concept. Personally, it's the opt-out approach taken I criticise, and the fact that this wasn't communicated well before rolling it out.
As an exception, I would like to quote myself, from an earlier discussion amongst moderators:
'Long launch' recommended
I take it you're aware of this concept being as sensitive as it is potentially useful. ... Therefore I would strongly recommend a 'long launch' phase, where the concept is actively and comprehensively communicated before rolling it out in production.
...
I believe it's essential to build trust amongst members before rollout.
Looking at this discussion, I find these comments relevant - hope you don't mind.
Best regards,
Ralf
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| I too object! | Jun 23, 2006 |
The Blue-Board has very strict rules that protect the outsourcers over and above us translaters. I am only just recovering from the financial damage of not being paid for an extremely large translation and the rage at not being able to report the outsourcer on the Blue-Board. With all due respect to the blue-board moderators.
Now I find that that same outsourcer could also make any comment she wishes on my profile. This is not even putting translaters and outsourcers on an eq... See more The Blue-Board has very strict rules that protect the outsourcers over and above us translaters. I am only just recovering from the financial damage of not being paid for an extremely large translation and the rage at not being able to report the outsourcer on the Blue-Board. With all due respect to the blue-board moderators.
Now I find that that same outsourcer could also make any comment she wishes on my profile. This is not even putting translaters and outsourcers on an equal footing.
Please, please reconsider this move or else remove all the safeguards from the blueboard if it is a question of putting us on an equal footing. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | what about abuse? | Jun 23, 2006 |
What if I never worked with a translator, but I post a negative feedback, just out of spite? The translator can reply that he or she never worked with such outsourcer, but the negative comment will be there and we will never know who's telling the truth...
Giovanni
| | | | | Is five years long enough? | Jun 23, 2006 |
Ralf Lemster wrote:
... 'Long launch' recommended
I am reminded of a comedy in which one character says, referring to a death, "it was so sudden." And the other says, "Sudden? He was suffering for years." Caught in a lie, the first says, "Yes, but the very end, I mean, when he actually died, it was so sudden."
You always advocate a long launch cycle, Ralf, and we always have them. But you often complain when we say "here it is -- the first pass". The announcement, you have to understand, Ralf, will always be "sudden" (as in the joke above). In the end, the actual "launch" happens in an instant!
In this case, we have discussed the formulation of the feedback system in public sessions at our events in Oxford, Krakow and Berlin. (Most intensively at Oxford; you know because you were there.) After private evaluation, six months of experience and experimentation with project history feedback, and other preparations, we now are ready for input on the matter from the greater community. There is no way to get this feedback without releasing to the general community. People have to be able to see the thing.
What we have released today, as the announcement states, is a first pass, for further evaluation. The feature will evolve and be improved based on what we hear back. And it will be years before the system reaches full impact.
In the end, I expect the entire process to have taken five years. I hope that is long enough.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
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