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BB vetting
Thread poster: Yelena.

Yelena.  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:04
English to Russian
+ ...
Nov 7, 2006

I noticed that all Blue Board entries now have to be vetted, even from Platinum members.

Could anyone explain what caused this? What are we trying to protect? Were there previously many cases of verbal abuse or something?


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:04
English to German
+ ...
Do you see a problem? Nov 7, 2006

Hi Yelena,

I noticed that all Blue Board entries now have to be vetted, even from Platinum members.

True - in fact, this was announced by Henry in July 2005.



Could anyone explain what caused this? What are we trying to protect? Were there previously many cases of verbal abuse or something?


Let me put it this way: entries which do not comply with the site rules occur on a regular basis; problems include personal comments or attacks, or entries which are not in line with the conditions set out in BB rule 2.

The vetting process gives Jobs/BB moderators a chance to ask posters to edit their entries - note that the same applies to replies posted by outsourcers.

Do you see a problem with this?

Best regards,
Ralf

[Edited at 2006-11-07 12:02]


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 06:04
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
How can I see the changes? Nov 7, 2006

That's very interesting news, Yelena. Could you tell me how to see the changes brought on by this vetting activity?

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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:04
English to German
+ ...
Notice when posting entries Nov 7, 2006

Hi Mikhail,
That's very interesting news, Yelena. Could you tell me how to see the changes brought on by this vetting activity?

Well, I guess the fact that this has gone largely unnoticed is the most important part. The Jobs/BB moderators team check new entries on an ongoing basis - on average, I don't think any entry that's in line with the BB rules stays unvetted for more than 2-3 hours (during European and US business hours).

What you see is that the button to submit an entry reads "Submit entry for vetting", and then a notice:


Your entry has been submitted for vetting. Upon approval, your entry will appear on this outsourcer's Blue Board record.


Best regards,
Ralf


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 06:04
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Yes, the vetting for ALL BB entries is in force Nov 7, 2006

already for about a year.

And yes, the reasons include avoiding abusing entries, self entries, hearsay entries, mutually agreed entries (I give 5 to you and you to me), entries which are not permitted because the Service Provider missed the deadline or there were quality issues, plainly mistaken entries (where service provider has worked for altogether different outsourcer with somewhat like name), as well as entries where not the Service Provider has worked for the Outsourcer, but vice versa.

I have to say there are enough cases of all of the above to justify vetting. Also I'd like to stress that entries are vetted soon enough and the vetting is part of the effort too keep the BB as most possibly objective and useful tool for all of us to refer too.

Uldis

Yelena. wrote:

I noticed that all Blue Board entries now have to be vetted, even from Platinum members.

Could anyone explain what caused this? What are we trying to protect? Were there previously many cases of verbal abuse or something?


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Yelena.  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:04
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks Nov 7, 2006

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Do you see a problem with this?

Best regards,
Ralf

[Edited at 2006-11-07 12:02]


No, I don't see a problem with this, it's just a bit annoying. Forum postings by Platinum members are not vetted even though I am sure there's a lot going on here, in line and not quite in line with the site rules.

Thanks for your explanation!


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:04
English to German
+ ...
More precisely? Nov 7, 2006

Hi again,

No, I don't see a problem with this, it's just a bit annoying.

What exactly do you find annoying about it?
As far as I can remember, all your entries have been approved without any ado.

Forum postings by Platinum members are not vetted even though I am sure there's a lot going on here, in line and not quite in line with the site rules.

Aren't you comparing apples with pears?
The forum vetting process is quite different (in fact, users' forum postings do not require vetting, provided they have a verified ID).

I'm trying to find out where exactly your problem is, in case we need to adapt the process - but for this purpose, I need a more detailed explanation.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Yelena.  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:04
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I understand what you are saying Nov 7, 2006

You are right, my entries have never been rejected.

This is why I find the vetting system slightly annoying: suppose I've been contacted by an outsourcer for a potential job and I have to make a decision if I want to take it on or not quite soon. I request entries from the BB and may end up waiting for hours even if someone responds fairly quickly.

This brings up another issue. I noticed that if you add a new client to the BB, it will say "It is not possible to post a call for entries. One is allowed every 30 days etc", however, this new oursourcer will never appear in the daily call for entries (multiple outsourcers) mailing.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:04
English to German
+ ...
Waiting periods. Nov 7, 2006

Hi again,

This is why I find the vetting system slightly annoying: suppose I've been contacted by an outsourcer for a potential job and I have to make a decision if I want to take it on or not quite soon. I request entries from the BB and may end up waiting for hours even if someone responds fairly quickly.

As I said, we're doing everything we can to make that period as short as possible. However, bearing in mind the issues mentioned (particularly those mentioned by Uldis), I believe the vetting system is a good compromise. (Remember that we have more than a year of experience with this system already - if there really was a major problem, I guess we would know...)

This brings up another issue. I noticed that if you add a new client to the BB, it will say "It is not possible to post a call for entries. One is allowed every 30 days etc", however, this new oursourcer will never appear in the daily call for entries (multiple outsourcers) mailing.

Haven't checked this myself, as I receive individual CFEs. If you notice this for a particular outsourcer, please submit a support request, quoting the relevant URL.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:04
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Two different things: response by members/users vs. vetting by moderators/staff Nov 7, 2006

Yelena. wrote:
... suppose I've been contacted by an outsourcer for a potential job and I have to make a decision if I want to take it on or not quite soon. I request entries from the BB and may end up waiting for hours even if someone responds fairly quickly.


Hi Yelena,

I think we have to distinguish two different things here:

a) the vetting process ensured by moderators and staff and
b) the responses to calls for entries submitted by ProZ.com members/users.

While we do indeed everything to keep a) as short as possible (2 to 3 hours is not a long delay at all in my personal opinion), the speed or rate of incoming responses (if any) mentioned under b) is entirely outside the influence of moderators and staff - it's up to other members/users to populate the Blue Board with entries.

Best,
Steffen


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 23:04
English to French
+ ...
Vetting is great - and we actually NEED it Nov 7, 2006

Hi Yelena,

I agree that it's annoying not to see our BB entries right away. But here is a little story.

I had a problem with an outsourcer because she did not pay me for nine months (!). I left her a polite but firm BB post, after she never responded to any of my e-mails and would not answer the phone. She replied - by accusing me of being an incompetent translator and that I made death threats! This was over a year ago, and vetting was not in place yet. I learned of her very insulting and clearly non compliant message by a system e-mail telling me she replied. Nobody at ProZ caught her reply before it was published on the site. I am the one who had to contact staff to get her reply removed.

Can you imagine the harm it could do to a translator to have such replies to their messages? Now, imagine how many people have a tendency to leave such messages if we are 160,000 people using this site.

Also, what you say about the forum is also valid. There are many people who, even if they know the rules, say things in the forum that they should not. In the forum, these things don't have as much an impact as they would on the BB. I am not trying to minimize the forum problems, all I'm trying to say is that if we consider the number of non compliant messages in the forum and transpose them to BB, where they would have a much bigger impact - we are talking about reputation - we get a good idea of the trouble many people would have if entries were not vetted.

I am very happy that BB entries are vetted and feel much safer now. Not that I expect more negative comments/replies, but still, there have been examples of outsourcers using the BB precisely so they don't have to pay for the job done and often, they are not ashamed of trampling a person's reputation in the process.

There are also service providers who complain about things for nothing, without a reason. Those entries also should be weeded out.

At the end of the day, we are all just better protected. But you can still leave BBs - provided you go by the rules

[Edited at 2006-11-07 17:13]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:04
English to German
+ ...
This was a bug - should be fixed now Nov 8, 2006

Hi again,

This brings up another issue. I noticed that if you add a new client to the BB, it will say "It is not possible to post a call for entries. One is allowed every 30 days etc", however, this new oursourcer will never appear in the daily call for entries (multiple outsourcers) mailing.

ProZ.com staff have confirmed this was a bug, which should be fixed now.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Yelena.  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:04
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thank you Nov 8, 2006

Thank you everyone!

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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 06:04
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
OH! Nov 9, 2006

Oops, sorry for dropping out of the discussion. I thought there was something I didn't know about, but it turned out to be old news

Best regards to all


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