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Thread poster: James Calder

James Calder  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 06:01
Member (2006)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Apr 26, 2007

Excuse my ignorance folks but could anyone tell me exactly what the criteria are for premium jobs?
One such job in my language combination was posted this morning, but there didn't seem to be anything particularly premium about it (market rates, quick turnaround - how many jobs don't pay market rates and demand anything less than quick turnaround?).
Who decides whether a job is "premium" or not? Proz, the outsourcer or us translators? Not the latter I fear.

[Edited at 2007-04-26 08:29]


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 05:01
Dutch to English
+ ...
Appears to be Proz .... Apr 26, 2007

... this is what they say on the relevant page about premium jobs anyhow - no further detail that I can see.

Link: http://www.proz.com/premiumjobs

"We will apply a certain standard to these opportunities, so that members are not inconvenienced by notification concerning opportunities that are in fact not relatively desirable".

Maybe someone from staff can elaborate on these "standards"?


[Edited at 2007-04-26 08:54]


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Ivana UK  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:01
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
From what I can tell Premium simply means that the advertiser has paid to post the job: Apr 26, 2007

I found this in the forums:

ProZ.com's most ambitious endeavor in the jobs area is "Project Connect", a new initiative to market the services of ProZ.com members to the world's top translation companies and end clients. This project includes a new category of "premium" job postings, where clients that meet a certain standard of desirability and have paid for the right to post the premium jobs get additional exposure and a more convenient interface for finding top professionals who meet the required criteria.

Project Connect began in June, and the platform was first announced to the public at the Localization World conference in Montreal. Read the press release here:

http://www.proz.com/press/12


http://www.proz.com/post/448522#448522


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James Calder  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 06:01
Member (2006)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Desirability Apr 26, 2007

Thanks Lawyer and Ivana

It's the issue of desirability I'm having a problem with here. There was nothing particularly desirable about the premium job I saw - just another bog standard job offer promising copious amounts of work at market rates (which market would that be by the way?).

Excuse my cynicism but if it says "premium" on the box then I want something premium, not the same old product in shiny new packaging.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:01
English to German
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Asked Mike to comment Apr 26, 2007

Hi all,

Maybe someone from staff can elaborate on these "standards"?


I have asked Mike Kidd to comment.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 05:01
Dutch to English
+ ...
Thanks Ralf ... Apr 26, 2007

... for your speedy response, as always.

Best regards
Deborah


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Mike Kidd
United States
Connect! Premium job definition Apr 27, 2007

Hi All,

Thank you very much for your comments on Premium Jobs sourced through ProZ.com Connect!

A job is considered premium when the project pays at or above market rates for the given language pair, and pays the translator a minimum of $100 USD.

We are requiring companies to agree to this understanding and approach as part of the platform's terms and conditions before they can even begin using the service.

However, for now, Connect! clients have been asked to determine for themselves whether a job qualifies as "premium" according to the definition above.

If you feel a job has been posted as premium and the above conditions have not been met, please enter a support ticket, citing the specific post with a URL.

Thanks very much. I appreciate your comments as they help us evolve the new service. Please let me know if you have additional questions.

Best,

Mike


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:01
German to English
+ ...
Which market rates? Apr 27, 2007

Mike Kidd wrote:

A job is considered premium when the project pays at or above market rates for the given language pair


Interesting - who decides what the "market rates" are, and how?

Marc


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Patricia Lane  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 06:01
French to English
+ ...
and then some Apr 27, 2007

Marc P wrote:

Mike Kidd wrote:

A job is considered premium when the project pays at or above market rates for the given language pair


Interesting - who decides what the "market rates" are, and how?

Marc


Which market?

The translation market (thank goodness!) is far from monolithic!

Patricia


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Victor Dewsbery  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:01
German to English
+ ...
Opting out Apr 27, 2007

We do not need to remain a captive audience - the site staff are developing an option to hide premium jobs (presumably it will be somewhere in the jobs dashboard).
I don't get them cluttering up my screen now, because I submitted a support ticket asking for this option, and Colin disabled them for me (pending the implementation of the option).


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 05:01
Dutch to English
+ ...
Exactly Apr 27, 2007

Marc P wrote:

Mike Kidd wrote:

A job is considered premium when the project pays at or above market rates for the given language pair


Interesting - who decides what the "market rates" are, and how?

Marc


Thanks for the initial rundown Mike; however could you please answer the question Marc has posed.

When doing so, by way of example, could you also please use one of the major language pairs (say French to English) and provide us with the actual rates that the site intends applying when this all gets fully underway, i.e. when it's no longer left up to the client to determine what the going market rate is.

Leaving it up to the client to decide (even if only for the short term) is, after all, incongruous with the statement that Proz will set the standard.

I think it's important that we can see how this is going to be applied in practice and benefit us, the translators. Using one of the major language pairs as an example will make it easier for everyone to understand.

Example: are we talking USD 0.05 or USD 0.10 (or hopefully more) per source word for a 2,000 word general text on the recent first round of the French presidential elections?

USD 0.05 meets the USD 100 minimum job value criterion but the rate would be scoffed at by most professional translators.

I realise it's difficult to generalise as texts differ, so please use this an example in the absence of any better one you can think of. I think it's one we can at least draw conclusions from and use to gain a better understanding of what "premium" will actually mean from a translator's perspective.

Regards
Deborah

[Edited at 2007-04-27 11:09]


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James Calder  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 06:01
Member (2006)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Good points Deborah Apr 27, 2007

I'm certainly not comfortable with the idea of outsourcers defining what is meant by "premium" and "desirability". I ignore most job offers because the posters expect you to work round the clock and deliver quality for a pittance, while also dangling the carrot of vast volumes of work in the future.

To my mind "at market rates" is standard, "above" is premium. I also feel this new platform is a vehicle for the more unscrupulous agencies to advertise themselves as premium outsourcers when they're nothing of the sort.

Let the community dictate what "premium" means.


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megane_wang  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 06:01
English to Spanish
+ ...
I did not know that about "pricing" in Premium Jobs... Apr 27, 2007

Actually, I received an offer of that sort, but I was just kindly asked for a quote for a potential project and a price to make a paid test, and did the test. Maybe a job will follow (I hope so, because the agency looks great).

My impression is that the agency tried the service because it allows them to send their offer to translators who have a specific profile.

I have recruited personnel sometimes and know that this possibility is a real time saver. First time I hired someone - a web programmer - I posted my offer in en environment like ProZ, and received 900 CV within 10 days. 600 of them did not accomplish my job description conditions (nor 2 out of 4 conditions). In the end, only 50 CVs were relevant, and only 10 were really interesting. But I spent a long week trying to find them out. If I had something like ProZ Connect at hand, that would have not happened (It was long ago!!).

As far as minimum pricing is concerned, I did not know anything about that. I don't remember having read that in the e-mails received from ProZ Connect. My excuses if that information is there. If not, maybe including a mention about what to expect from those jobs would be useful. At least people could be able to send feedback to ProZ if the job does not meet those expectations.

Maybe the system could help by considering an average of the target rate for a language pair as a "minimum". I understand that this is just an indication, since real job volume and content are to be considered to quote accordingly, but at least the system already has that information.

... just my 2 cents...

Ruth @ MW

[Edited at 2007-04-27 11:16]


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Michele Johnson  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:01
German to English
+ ...
Market rates, revisited Apr 27, 2007

Marc P wrote:
Interesting - who decides what the "market rates" are, and how?
Marc


Interesting indeed - I'd love to hear how this is defined too. Is it an average of members' published rates? Of jobs listed on the site? I'm fascinated that proz.com steadfastly refuses to define a "minimum rate" when it comes to job postings (a position I agree with BTW), but apparently has an internal definition of "market rates." I'd love to see more transparency in all financial issues related to the site.


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Tokyo_Moscow  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 14:01
Japanese to Russian
+ ...
My experience Apr 27, 2007

Hi all,
I also received some notifications about premium jobs and was wery happy to reply with my CV. So did other members of my family who work with VERY RARE language combinations, and highly specialize. However, we were very surprised when we didn't get any single reply after that. Let's say you work from Farshi into Armenian, somebody wants your CV badly for that particular pair, and after that never contacts you, taking your data to nowhere. When that happens while you bid to other, regular jobs, you feel like that's OK, but in case of premium jobs that makes you feel puzzled. At least some automated message could be sent. The opportunity at first looks great, maybe there are ways to improve the attitude of posters? What do others think about this? Thanks.


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