| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Outsourcers now have the option to rank freelancers by KudoZ PRO points in the last 12 months Thread poster: Enrique Cavalitto
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| | Henry Hinds 
United States
Local time: 13:15
English to Spanish
+ ...
In memoriam | Probably makes no difference | Nov 15, 2007 |
With my point totals, even though I am a non-member, you would think that I would be flooded with inquiries about my services originating from potential clients using Proz.com.
That is not the case at all. Thus it probably makes no difference.
| | | | Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 22:15
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Because having 32702 KudoZ, as a non-paying member in the translator search you show only after the last paying member- who may have 1 KudoZ point at all.
So maybe you should consider becoming a member- than you will show top on the first, not last page
It really makes difference, believe me- being also an outsourcer, I very rarely look beyond first translator search results page. And from the clients who ... See more Because having 32702 KudoZ, as a non-paying member in the translator search you show only after the last paying member- who may have 1 KudoZ point at all.
So maybe you should consider becoming a member- than you will show top on the first, not last page
It really makes difference, believe me- being also an outsourcer, I very rarely look beyond first translator search results page. And from the clients who contact me, I guess they don't too
Uldis
BTW, as my experience (and as many colleagues can testify) shows that usually profit from even the first job received via ProZ more than covers membership expenses.
You might want to read this testimony- from a member I personally spent more than a year to convince to becoming a member : http://www.proz.com/post/472690#472690
U.
Henry Hinds wrote:
With my point totals, even though I am a non-member, you would think that I would be flooded with inquiries about my services originating from potential clients using Proz.com.
That is not the case at all. Thus it probably makes no difference.
[Rediģēts plkst. 2007-11-15 22:53] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Enrique Cavalitto
Argentina
Local time: 16:15
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | Membership and profile | Nov 15, 2007 |
Henry Hinds wrote:
With my point totals, even though I am a non-member, you would think that I would be flooded with inquiries about my services originating from potential clients using Proz.com.
That is not the case at all. Thus it probably makes no difference.
Hi Henry,
Membership, as Uldis clearly explains above, is very important regarding the position of a particular profile in a Directory search. Another critical factor is the data contained in the profile.
Maciek has a perfect profile, including all required and encouraged fields. This greatly improves his chances to be selected in a directory search.
When a profile has no information in the "Services" area, then a directory search asking for a translator in the corresponding language pair and field of expertise will never find it because it does not include the information Service = "translation"
Regards,
Enrique
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| It is bad news | Nov 15, 2007 |
Tadzio Carvallo wrote: Enrique wrote:
Hi Tadzio,
This will be an alternative sorting mechanism for outsourcers who look for translators through the directory. Freelancers have always been sorted there by membership status (members first) and then by KudoZ PRO points. This new alternative option will allow outsourcers to consider only the points corresponding to the last 12 months.
As you get your jobs from job postings, this option should not affect you at all.
Best regards,
Enrique My last three clients come from outsourcers who found me through the Directory. I can give you their names, if you wish. They are colleagues and agencies... As you can see, the new option is not good news for me, as is not for many like me, for what I can see. Sorry, Enrique, it is still bad news. [Edited at 2007-11-15 16:46]
I rarely bid on jobs but have received lots of job offers made directly via the directory.
Now outsourcers will be nudged to use those people who having been hard at work Kudozing over the past 12 months? That means that "old paying members" will be ignored in favour of "new paying members", many of whom are starting/trying to start to enter the profession.
It will ultimately remove the remaining value from Kudoz points, because it will encourage even more people to answer anything and everything all day long and those who are actually working won't have time for Kudoz in any case.
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Enrique wrote:
Both lists for members (professional or partial-jobs) and other users are ranked by PRO KudoZ points in the selected language pair and field of expertise.
Now outsourcers have been given the option of ranking freelancers according to only the KudoZ PRO points obtained during the last 12 months.
Enrique
Crapshoot - a risky enterprise.
Enrique, when outsourcers are given new options, is anything done to educate them about the significance of these options? I think we should warn them that KudoZ points do not necessarily equate to professional competence. Caveat emptor, let the buyer beware!
Dear Outsourcer - looking for a translator? Want a nasty surprise? Look for a translator based on his or her KudoZ points obtained during the last 12 months. Many of these folks are outstanding translators who have proven their worth by answering challenging translation questions. Many are shockingly incompetent point grabbers who do nothing all day long but answer KudoZ questions seeking to rise in the rankings and time and time again have hoodwinked askers into thinking they know what they're talking about.
[Edited at 2007-11-15 23:57]
| | | | Enrique Cavalitto
Argentina
Local time: 16:15
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | The default is the same system that has been used before | Nov 16, 2007 |
writeaway wrote:
I rarely bid on jobs but have received lots of job offers made directly via the directory.
Now outsourcers will be nudged to use those people who having been hard at work Kudozing over the past 12 months? That means that "old paying members" will be ignored in favour of "new paying members", many of whom are starting/trying to start to enter the profession.
The default is the same system that has been used before, considering the "all time points". Outsourcers now have the alternative option of considering the points corresponding to the last 12 months.
Giving outsourcers that option does not means that old members will be ignored in favour of new ones. It simply means that outsourcers keep their conventional sorting system and now have an anternative, additional one.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | Doesn´t this measure encourage people to answer questions... | Nov 16, 2007 |
for the sake of the points, rather than to genuinely help a colleague?.
We have had endless discussions here about why answers that are totally wrong, are chosen by the asker; why some people have the nerve to answer when it´s clear they lack the competence to do so, etc.
Do outsourcers know about all this? Is anyone going to tell them?
I also wonder why we have to prove ourselves over and over in this site and why Proz.com favours more mechanisms so that... See more for the sake of the points, rather than to genuinely help a colleague?.
We have had endless discussions here about why answers that are totally wrong, are chosen by the asker; why some people have the nerve to answer when it´s clear they lack the competence to do so, etc.
Do outsourcers know about all this? Is anyone going to tell them?
I also wonder why we have to prove ourselves over and over in this site and why Proz.com favours more mechanisms so that we have to carry on doing so.
Just because we´re capable of grabbing more points than anybody else, of putting up an excellent profile, etc. we´re not better translators than the rest. All this is a way of making us compete against one another with marketing tools, rather than with professionalism. ▲ Collapse
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Maciek Drobka
Poland
Local time: 21:15
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
| A point grabber's point of view... | Nov 16, 2007 |
Kim Metzger wrote:
Many of these folks are outstanding translators who have proven their worth by answering challenging translation questions. Many are shockingly incompetent point grabbers who do nothing all day long but answer KudoZ questions seeking to rise in the rankings and time and time again have hoodwinked askers into thinking they know what they're talking about.
Black and white, eh? No shades of gray.
Guess what, a bunch of them are pretty good translators who also think (competent) point grabbing is a good way to boost their presence in the Directory, and to get more quality jobs through Proz.com. Which does happen, and Directory-based clients do return with more business. Even to point grabbers.
M
| | | | Maciek Drobka
Poland
Local time: 21:15
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
| For the sake of points... | Nov 16, 2007 |
Elena Robles Sanjuan wrote:
for the sake of the points, rather than to genuinely help a colleague?.
(...)
All this is a way of making us compete against one another with marketing tools, rather than with professionalism.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there's a KudoZ rule saying you can only answer questions if you want to help a colleague rather than get the points.
Frankly, I mostly answer questions for the sake of points because I have learned it pays off (yes, in money terms).
And yes, I have provided a few incompetent answers in my KudoZ career, mostly in the medical field, but after getting several disagrees I learned my lesson. Now I know I shouldn't enter an area unless I have strong experience there. And I stick to that 95% of the time. The remaining 5% is for when I genuinely think I know the answer, but only learn afterwards I was wrong.
And as for marketing... Well, I accept it as a fact of life. Again, nobody said we should only compete with professionalism. I do a fair amount of marketing, but I only market the truth about my skills and experience. Investing my time, money, and effort into the KudoZ system, a thorough ProZ.com profile and a professional web site has paid off tremendously.
Best,
Maciek
| | | | Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:15
Spanish to English
| What is the point of this? | Nov 16, 2007 |
Enrique wrote:
The default is the same system that has been used before, considering the "all time points". Outsourcers now have the alternative option of considering the points corresponding to the last 12 months.
Giving outsourcers that option does not means that old members will be ignored in favour of new ones. It simply means that outsourcers keep their conventional sorting system and now have an anternative, additional one.
If the default system is the same as always (which still needs changing, IMHO, by the way, as mentioned above, what happened to the reliability ratio idea?), then could you please explain WHY outsourcers are being given this new tool. Because the whole exercise seems a little pointless to me.
P.S. Great caveat Kim.
[Edited at 2007-11-16 08:14]
| | | | Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 15:15
English to Spanish
+ ...
Maciek Drobka wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there's a KudoZ rule saying you can only answer questions if you want to help a colleague rather than get the points.
The fact that there's not a rule doesn't make it right.
Maciek Drobka wrote:
Frankly, I mostly answer questions for the sake of points because I have learned it pays off (yes, in money terms).
I'm sure it does and good for you; but if the asker is completely lost and receives completely a wrong answer because the answerer cares about the points only, no matter how unprepared s/he is in the subject, it can be harmful.
Maciek Drobka wrote:
And yes, I have provided a few incompetent answers in my KudoZ career, mostly in the medical field,...
ESPECIALLY in this field (or heavy machinery ::shudder:: ). Frankly I think that people's health is FAR more important that 4 miserable KudoZ point, but perhaps that's just me.
Maciek Drobka wrote:
...but after getting several disagrees I learned my lesson. Now I know I shouldn't enter an area unless I have strong experience there. And I stick to that 95% of the time. The remaining 5% is for when I genuinely think I know the answer, but only learn afterwards I was wrong.
Giving a wrong answer because you were 100% certain that it was correct is completely different than shooting the first thing that comes to mind or the 3rd Google hit for the sake of points, without even bothering to ask oneself "is this right?" or reading the whole question.
Maciek Drobka wrote:
And as for marketing... Well, I accept it as a fact of life. Again, nobody said we should only compete with professionalism. I do a fair amount of marketing, but I only market the truth about my skills and experience.
Seems like we don't understand "professionalism" the same way.
[Edited at 2007-11-16 14:08]
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Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 15:15
English to Spanish
+ ...
I'm not sure what to make of this new option.
On the one hand, it will give newcomers to the site, who aren't necessarily newcomers to the business, better chances, given that it is almost impossible for someone who's been around ProZ for a year to compete with those who have been around since 2000. I think that would level the playing field a little, and that is a good thing.
On the other hand, it is yet another ... See more I'm not sure what to make of this new option.
On the one hand, it will give newcomers to the site, who aren't necessarily newcomers to the business, better chances, given that it is almost impossible for someone who's been around ProZ for a year to compete with those who have been around since 2000. I think that would level the playing field a little, and that is a good thing.
On the other hand, it is yet another way of telling people "do it! go crazy pursuing kudoz points!" and thus encourages the already too extended habit of copy-pasting the first google hits on the hopes of climbing up in the ranking. This is a bad thing.
AND I second Christel's and Nikki's comments: the realiability ratio, which in my opinion would be a much fairer system and an important deterrent to point-grabbers, has been suggested and discussed over an over again by ProZ members but not ProZ itself. I would also like to see it be SERIOUSLY discussed by the ProZ staff as a valid alternative.
[Edited at 2007-11-16 14:07] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Please dot the i's and cross the t's Enrique | Nov 16, 2007 |
Does the new option mean that in the list according to this option, a non-member having earned more Kudoz points will come before a platinum member, who has lesser number of Kudoz points to his credit and that too in the last 12 months?
If say some 10 non-members have the first 10 ranks in Kudoz holdings in that manner, the first member will come only after these 10 people in the list?
Please say so explicitly if that is the case. Your repeating that the old option is ... See more Does the new option mean that in the list according to this option, a non-member having earned more Kudoz points will come before a platinum member, who has lesser number of Kudoz points to his credit and that too in the last 12 months?
If say some 10 non-members have the first 10 ranks in Kudoz holdings in that manner, the first member will come only after these 10 people in the list?
Please say so explicitly if that is the case. Your repeating that the old option is still the default option starts to sound like a refrain in a song.
Why 10 non-members, it might even be 100 non-members theoretically before a member comes up. Have I understood clearly? 
Regards,
N.Raghavan
Enrique wrote:
Now there is an alternative option given to outsourcers, to rank results only by the points achieved during the last year. The default is still to sort by the traditional "all time" KudoZ points.
Regards,
Enrique
[Edited at 2007-11-16 14:14] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Enrique Cavalitto
Argentina
Local time: 16:15
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | Membership first, and then KudoZ | Nov 16, 2007 |
Narasimhan Raghavan wrote: Does the new option mean that in the list according to this option, a non-member having earned more Kudoz points will come before a platinum member, who has lesser number of Kudoz points to his credit and that too in the last 12 months? If say some 10 non-members have the first 10 ranks in Kudoz holdings in that manner, the first member will come only after these 10 people in the list? Please say so explicitly if that is the case. Your repeating that the old option is still the default option starts to sound like a refrain in a song. Why 10 non-members, it might even be 100 non-members theoretically before a member comes up. Have I understood clearly? Regards, N.Raghavan
Hi Narasimhan,
When an outsourcer looks for freelancers in the directory (for instance indicating language pair, field of expertise and other parameters), the results come are sorted first by membership and then by KudoZ PRO points.
In other words ALL the job-related members (full professional, partial jobs, corporate) that satisfy the requirements will be presented before any of the remaining users who also satisfy the requirements.
So the results are arranged in two batches (first job-related members, then the remaining users), and within each of these batches the ranking will be primarily defined by the amount of KudoZ PRO points in the language pair and field of expertise indicates by the outsourcer.
This has been, and still is, the way the directory works. What is new is the alternative option given to outsourcers to look only for the points earned in the last year (instead of "all time" points).
Regards,
Enrique
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