Suggest renaming the "Term or phrase" field to "Term"
Thread poster: Nesrin

Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:12
English to Arabic
+ ...
Mar 22, 2008

Just now an asker decided to post a Kudoz question which was really a full and long sentence. I wrote him a note saying "Please only specify one term in the "term or phrase" field." Then I thought - that sounds a bit contradictory, doesn't it? Surely the asker will say "What's she talking about - it does say 'Term or PHRASE' "? We're told to only ask one TERM per question, then in the "Ask a question" form it says:

Term or phrase: (one term at a time please)

Does the word "phrase" serve any purpose here, other than confuse newcomers? I think the word "term" on its own should do.

[Edited at 2008-03-22 22:22]


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Murat Uzum  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:12
English to Turkish
Term or Phrase Mar 22, 2008

Dear Nesrin,

I think it confuses many people too. Also there are some translators who just input the term alone without typing the phrase that it was used in and this causes answerers to input a non-related meaning of the word.

So it would be best to divide it to two boxes as:
Box 1: (Required)
Term

Box 2: (Required)
The phrase where the term is used.

Wouldn't this be more helpful?

Thanks,
Murat

[Edited at 2008-03-22 23:02]

[Edited at 2008-03-23 02:27]


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:12
Member (2000)
Russian to English
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No, asking for a phrase should continue to be permissible Mar 22, 2008

As long as the phrase doesn't exceed ten words, it is a permissible question, and often a single won't solve the problem.

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Jared Tabor
Local time: 10:12
SITE STAFF
Term help Mar 23, 2008

Hello all,

I believe Jack has the right idea here. A fairly clear definition of this can be found at http://www.proz.com/faq/kudoz#What_is_term_help

Best regards,

Jared


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JaneTranslates  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 09:12
Member (2005)
Spanish to English
+ ...
I'm with Jack on this one. Mar 23, 2008

Jack Doughty wrote:

As long as the phrase doesn't exceed ten words, it is a permissible question, and often a single won't solve the problem.


I just checked my "asked" questions; of the last 10, only 3 were single words. I realize that a term can actually be more than one word, but if you think newcomers are confused now...

What I would like (it's been suggested, in various forms, a bazillion times) is a mandatory context field in addition to the explanation field, with a definition of what is meant by "context."

Jane


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:12
English to Arabic
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TOPIC STARTER
The definition of term Mar 23, 2008

JaneTranslates wrote:

I just checked my "asked" questions; of the last 10, only 3 were single words. I realize that a term can actually be more than one word, but if you think newcomers are confused now...

Jane


I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say askers have to ask one word per question, but - just as the Kudoz rules say(!) - one term per question. Jane, I just checked the questions you asked, and while many are indeed more than one word, they're always one term per question.

Jared, you say

I believe Jack has the right idea here. A fairly clear definition of this can be found at http://www.proz.com/faq/kudoz#What_is_term_help


So let's see what that definition says:


59. What constitutes "term help" as defined in rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_general/1.1#1.1 ?

KudoZ questions can be used to ask for help on terms or idiomatic expressions.

A group of words (up to approximately 10) should be posted in a single question only when they constitute an unbreakable unit, such as an idiomatic expression (e.g. 'a jack of all trades and master of none') that may be several words long and where omitting any part would not formulate the question correctly.

Askers can also post sentences to ask for help in understanding a meaning, word order or a grammatical issue, but this should be done in the corresponding monolingual language pair. Monolingual KudoZ questions can be asked by selecting the same language for both source and target languages.


All this proves my point that the word "term" is perfectly enough to cover what we here are all talking about. And indeed, throughout this site the word "term" is almost exclusively used when referring to Kudoz rules, except when it gets to the "ask a question" field, where the asker suddenly finds that he's allowed to ask about a "term or phrase", followed by the apparently contradictory explanation (one term at a time please).
So again, I stick to my suggestion to remove the word "phrase". We could, at this point in the form, put the link Jared provided to the definition of what constitutes a term, or short summary of what it says.

[Edited at 2008-03-23 09:37]


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Amy Duncan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 10:12
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Agree with Jack Mar 23, 2008

Jack Doughty wrote:

As long as the phrase doesn't exceed ten words, it is a permissible question, and often a single won't solve the problem.


Sometimes colleagues can be so helpful with those sticky phrases that drive us nuts!


Amy


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:12
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
It's just the inconsistency that's upsetting me... Mar 23, 2008

Amy Duncan wrote:

Sometimes colleagues can be so helpful with those sticky phrases that drive us nuts!

Amy


I assure you again that I'm not against that. Going back to my first point, it's the phrasing that's annoying me:
"Term or phrase: (one term at a time please)"
is confusing and inconsistent.. We're told "one term per question" everywhere, then suddenly in this SINGLE INSTANCE the word "phrase" crops up. I think there shoud be consistency one way or the other. That's all.

[Edited at 2008-03-23 18:21]


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JaneTranslates  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 09:12
Member (2005)
Spanish to English
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I understood you, Nesrin! ;-D Mar 23, 2008

Nesrin wrote:

JaneTranslates wrote:

I just checked my "asked" questions; of the last 10, only 3 were single words. I realize that a term can actually be more than one word, but if you think newcomers are confused now...

Jane


I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say askers have to ask one word per question, but - just as the Kudoz rules say(!) - one term per question. Jane, I just checked the questions you asked, and while many are indeed more than one word, they're always one term per question.



Sorry I took so long to respond; I forgot to tick the box to track this thread.

Yes, I do indeed get what you're saying, and I too get annoyed when people post questions that don't even remotely fit the rules! Language on the site should, I agree, be correct and consistent, but I'm not sure eliminating "or phrase" will be helpful.

My point is that many, many people (including members of this site) would find it difficult to clearly define the term "term," and laypeople almost always associate it with the idea of "one word." When I wrote "if you think newcomers are confused now," I was thinking of neophytes, non-translators, people for whom English is not a working language, old-timers who entered the profession before the science of "terminology" came into vogue, and anybody else who might not readily understand that a "term" can be a phrase.

Notice that the definition of "term" cited by Jared is #59 in a long list of FAQs. I'll bet many long-time users and members of this site have never read through all of them!

OK, I'm rambling. Considering that many questions are asked by newcomers to the site, how about changing the wording to "word or phrase"? Then, at the point where it says "one term at a time," a link to, or short summary of, the definition of "term" can be included, as you suggest. But many won't read it. You can lead a horse to water...

Would that help?


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