| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | "Contact info hidden" on job postings - am I the only one concerned here? Thread poster: Marcelo Silveyra
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| Rules apply to all | Mar 27, 2008 |
Brandis wrote: believing that screen that tells how much freedom a paid member has, Till today it does not say anything about limitations or any sort. I took my membership only under this condition in 2003 and it had continued till you changed the rules here and there a little bit and I feel crowded. What are you going to do about it? Brandis
Rules apply to all site users, irrespective of their membership status
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 02:54
English to German
+ ...
| recorded now... | Mar 27, 2008 |
Enrique wrote: Brandis wrote: believing that screen that tells how much freedom a paid member has, Till today it does not say anything about limitations or any sort. I took my membership only under this condition in 2003 and it had continued till you changed the rules here and there a little bit and I feel crowded. What are you going to do about it? Brandis Rules apply to all site users, irrespective of their membership status
| | | | Eva Straus 
Slovenia
Local time: 02:54
Member (2007)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Already expressed my reservations about hiding outsourcer details | Mar 27, 2008 |
See this thread: www.proz.com/topic/99952 - as you probably won't want to read through the whole thing I'd like to highlight this point specifically:
2. Sometimes translators can actually HELP THEIR COLLEAGUES avoid potentially risky jobs if they can see who's posting.
I can't count the times I've seen a forum discussion spark up after a job poster with disagreeable business practices endeavoured to offer a new assignment. Translators who've had bad experience with such an outsourcer (but not meeting the criteria for making a BB entry – or perhaps not wanting to expose themselves to the ill will a bad BB comment would generate) sometimes provide useful hints in forums (usually worded somewhat like "I've noticed a certain TA from *insert country* is headhunting again but lemme tell you they really pulled a fast one on me"). I'm fairly alert to such cues and I often contact such translators privately and ask them which outsourcer that was and what actually happened – these translators mostly work in language pairs other than mine and if this questionable change is applied they will never realise that some outsourcer is the same as the one that treated them unfairly.
QED: Hiding outsourcer details is BAD for translators."
It's good to see there are more of us who feel this way. I know ProZ is always trying to make this site better for all its users but I honestly don't believe this change is all that good.
To answer Henry, who so kindly told me:
With all due respect, I guess you are not an outsourcer. They are the ones that want this change the most.
Well Henry, you're right, I'm merely a humble freelancer. However, I already posted eight jobs here: http://www.proz.com/?sp=jobs&sp_mode=posts&search_setting=view_all&eid_s=718567 plus I hired some service providers through the freelancer directory. Do I qualify as an outsourcer? Can I have a say?
My suggestion remains: This latest change should be made available as an option, not as a default.
[Edited at 2008-03-27 22:01]
| | | | | I take it the bulk of this site are outsourcers and the rest is just feed... | Mar 28, 2008 |
Eva Straus wrote: To answer Henry, who so kindly told me: With all due respect, I guess you are not an outsourcer. They are the ones that want this change the most.
I take it then that Henry didn't want these changes and it is all the outsourcers' fault...
Well, as a paying member, there are also changes I want and many users, paying and non-paying alike, have been asking for these, for several years now in some cases... what's up with those changes?
Regardless of whether Eva - or any of us - ever posted a job or not, I am deeply troubled by Henry's statement. Should we then assume that whatever outsourcers want, outsourcers will get? What will happen the day outsourcers will request for their BB records to be also hidden from site users, paying and non-paying alike? What will happen the day outsourcers want all translators who have a profile on ProZ to work free? Meanwhile, what have you done for freelancers lately? Oh, that's right, we now have a Facebook-like feature and we have been having many wonderful translations contests. *clap-clap-clap*
It's OK to try to satisfy everybody's needs, but I don't remember freelancers being asked about this. What about their needs? Or the way jobs are posted doesn't concern them at all? Aren't they the ones who quote on those jobs, by chance?
While user requests seem to go in one ear and out the other, outsourcers can freely have their way? What kind of a one-sided approach is that?
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Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 03:54
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
| I am an outsourcer | Mar 28, 2008 |
and in my profile it clearly stands we specialize in translations from all major languages into 3 Baltic ones. However, we daily receive umpteen applications from whatever to whatever languages (say, from Tamil to Tagalog). Therefore I strongly support ProZ on this action- job posting details should be seen only to the translators who qualify to the specific job posting.
Job posting details should not be accessible to about anyone to make up their database for spamming (I guess this... See more and in my profile it clearly stands we specialize in translations from all major languages into 3 Baltic ones. However, we daily receive umpteen applications from whatever to whatever languages (say, from Tamil to Tagalog). Therefore I strongly support ProZ on this action- job posting details should be seen only to the translators who qualify to the specific job posting.
Job posting details should not be accessible to about anyone to make up their database for spamming (I guess this wasn't promised even in ProZ.com Full Membership options, was it?)
And now my view as a ProZ.com jobs moderator- out there are a more than one not so clean-handed competitors (if you can call them that) who are stealing job postings from every language site on the Web they can access and where they can lay their hands on and obtain enough contact details to republish the stolen job on their site(s). (To make you pay their membership, they have to demonstrate they have much to offer).
Needless to say that close to 95% outsourcers completely ignore bids originating from sites where they have not originally published their job on.
However, as understandably freelancers go, they try to register on every site promising them a jobs opportunities- but, as far as these unclean competitors go- registering at them costs more than becoming a full member of ProZ. I could quote testimonies from many ProZ members, who have paid to these sites only in order either to receive no offers at all in a duration of a year, or being scorned by the outsourcers when bidding, because the outsourcer never had published his job on such a site.
Therefore I fully support this new restriction, as, as I see it, it if both for the outsourcer and service supplier benefit.
Uldis
[Rediģēts plkst. 2008-03-28 09:37]
[Rediģēts plkst. 2008-03-28 11:06] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joan Berglund
United States
Local time: 20:54
Member (2008)
French to English
| Directory could definitaley be improved | Mar 28, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
That is what my preoccupation was when I saw the announcement. I don't think ProZ is not aware that site users also use the data in job postings to prospect, not just to apply for jobs. I have tried to use the directory to build a list of potential clients - it was a total failure. For one thing, the directory is not searchable. For example, I cannot display agencies/outsourcers in the country of my choice by BB rating. Edited at 2008-03-27 19:29]
I am not sure what I think about the hidden contact info. Having been a translation manager, I can imagine it is very stressful to be inundated with a lot of non-relevent CVs when you are trying to place a large rush job, for example. I can't help thinking that this doesn't make a very good first impression, either. So I can understand why outsourcers want contact info blocked, although I can also understand people's compaints. It would be nice if the directory was more usable. I generated a list of companies in my language pair and specialization to contact, but the list was a pain to work with. I had to navigate away to get the blueboard rating and contact info, and then couldn't navigate back, I would have to regenerate the list. So I ended up opening new windows for the blue board and for outsourcer websites at it was all very annoying. Contact info and blueboard rating should be part of the directory itself. And it would be nice if it could be searchable by country as well as language pair and specialization.
| | | | | Indeed, you are an outsourcer... | Mar 28, 2008 |
...and as such, you seem to be missing the point that freelancers have been trying to communicate here and in other threads.
Uldis Liepkalns wrote:
However, we daily receive umpteen applications from whatever to whatever languages
You see, what I don't really understand is how come freelancers can be receiving bulk messages sent directly through their profiles, not only from outsourcers who clearly haven't read our profiles and are invading our privacy with offers that most of us are clearly not interested in, but from plain spammers and scammers as well. So, if I understand correctly, it is OK for freelancers to be spammed, but when it comes to outsourcers, no Sir-eee, that is a whole different story, eh? Yet, when freelancers asked for resumes not to be part of the criteria used to determine if one's profile is complete or not - dead silence!
Uldis Liepkalns wrote:
And now my view as a ProZ.com jobs moderator- out there are a more than one not so clean-handed competitors (if you can call them that) who are stealing job postings from every language site on the Web they can access and where they can lay their hands on and obtain enough contact details to republish the stolen job on their site(s).
This would not be the case had somebody somewhere listened when freelancers kindly asked ProZ to not allow any kind of activity to people who are not logged in. If it was mandatory to be logged in when quoting, then it would be feasible to simply quote on a job without displaying contact details other than name and location, and it would still be possible to build a database for freelancers who so desire without anybody getting spammed (and to my knowledge, outsourcers also build databases of freelancers - in fact, it is the main purpose of the Connect platform, if I am not mistaken). In any case, it would be nice also to just know who the job posters are, so that we can all identify the people we DON'T want to ever work with and put them on our personal black lists - what harm could that do?
Uldis Liepkalns wrote:
it if both for the outsourcer and service supplier benefit.
If it really was for the service suppliers' benefit, then why would they complain about it? But of course, you wouldn't know - you are an outsourcer.
[Edited at 2008-03-28 00:59]
| | | | Assia Terpecheva
Spain
Local time: 02:54
Member (2007)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
As I mentioned before, the best way to know which opinion prevails is...to vote it on "quick poll"...or not? Then we'll know for sure if this change is well accepted or not. Instead of asking us how many hours we are sleeping (for example).
Or maybe another question for "quick poll" - "Are you willing to renew your membership next year owing to new changes?"
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Eva Straus
Slovenia
Local time: 02:54
Member (2007)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Let's hope my poll on recent changes makes it | Mar 28, 2008 |
Assia Terpecheva wrote:
As I mentioned before, the best way to know which opinion prevails is...to vote it on "quick poll"...or not? Then we'll know for sure if this change is well accepted or not.
Submitted! Keeping my fingers crossed
No, but really: does ProZ have enough sense of humour to let my poll run?
| | | | Manuela Junghans
Germany
Local time: 02:54
Member (2004)
English to German
+ ...
| Hope so too, Eva... | Mar 28, 2008 |
... but even if it does, I doubt that the outcome would change anything on the rules already implemented.
I can only second what most of you have already expressed here, I too find this new "contact information hidden" business very annoying. In recent days I could hardly view any contact information at all, even on jobs I would (in my humble opinion) be very well qualified to quote on. One (possibly unintentional) wrong move on part of the outsourcer and you are basically out of t... See more ... but even if it does, I doubt that the outcome would change anything on the rules already implemented.
I can only second what most of you have already expressed here, I too find this new "contact information hidden" business very annoying. In recent days I could hardly view any contact information at all, even on jobs I would (in my humble opinion) be very well qualified to quote on. One (possibly unintentional) wrong move on part of the outsourcer and you are basically out of the game.
I think it has already been discussed in a thread yesterday (which I am currently unable to find) that a job was posted from a language into two other languages, but the outsourcer had specified that only native speakers of one of the two target languages could quote.... so the native speakers of the other target language were unable to quote. This morning I saw a posting where the outsourcer put a series of softwares into the "preferrred" software field (not even "required"). So if you failed to have only one of those softwares, again you couldn´t quote. And I take those possibilities are almost endless.
What I see from the new rule is, that in order to be able to quote at all, you have to list all sorts of things in your profile (true or not), just to have a chance to quote on jobs in your language pair.
I think it´s absolutely ridiculous and do not the least like it.
Hope the responsible people will reconsider that move.
Manuela ▲ Collapse
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 02:54
English to German
+ ...
| I would then simply suggest... | Mar 28, 2008 |
Manuela Junghans wrote:
... but even if it does, I doubt that the outcome would change anything on the rules already implemented.
I can only second what most of you have already expressed here, I too find this new "contact information hidden" business very annoying. In recent days I could hardly view any contact information at all, even on jobs I would (in my humble opinion) be very well qualified to quote on. One (possibly unintentional) wrong move on part of the outsourcer and you are basically out of the game.
I think it has already been discussed in a thread yesterday (which I am currently unable to find) that a job was posted from a language into two other languages, but the outsourcer had specified that only native speakers of one of the two target languages could quote.... so the native speakers of the other target language were unable to quote. This morning I saw a posting where the outsourcer put a series of softwares into the "preferrred" software field (not even "required"). So if you failed to have only one of those softwares, again you couldn´t quote. And I take those possibilities are almost endless.
What I see from the new rule is, that in order to be able to quote at all, you have to list all sorts of things in your profile (true or not), just to have a chance to quote on jobs in your language pair.
I think it´s absolutely ridiculous and do not the least like it.
Hope the responsible people will reconsider that move.
Manuela Hide translators´s and their profiles. But this is certainly not the objective of proz.com. (Why hide the translators) and hide the oursourcers and hide their postings etc.,Carpe Diem Hora nuit! We do not have to worry about the purposes of the site that remain mysterious..I myself am certainly not happy with this unwanted and pre-agreed filtering mechanism. You see I am an engineer before I was a translator and it gives me much freedom to see and think and understand and translate, there are so many resources available in libraries, programs, on the net and just not forget the empirical working experience. I have passions for classical theatre, I watch these things dearly seeking something I may have missed to understand,but I do not require reported credential when my feeling is OK with a given text and says go ahead bob, you know that stuff. But the filtering machanism leads to a business idea. I am a paying member and my freedom of accessing is no more permitted, " you have no credential in this domain expertise'" or the simialr - because of lackage of credential in classical cultural subject ( as a matter of example) same thing with aero space or even 3D ANIMATION. In a few weeks my 7th book is coming out published from a german publishing house, the book is not none of those credentials I have reported in my profile, it is about socio-technical issues in a growing society. Do I need a credential here. there is no institute, that can issue a certification and I am not seeking one. basta Brandis - I generally mean to say where ever those wizard designers of Proz.com got the idea to put their site population to such a turmoil as to reject for what they are and the remaking is not wanted. Zuckerbrot und Peitsche!!!
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Brandis (X)
Local time: 02:54
English to German
+ ...
| equality issues... | Mar 30, 2008 |
I was thinking about solving this issue. Just like a translator´s profile is made public as a matter of routing, I would suggest that the outsourcer´s information is equally made public depite as many filters. This is just fairness. Filters have already been introduced to posting that require credentials and I know it is my freedom to tap the potential in other areas when I contact an outsourcer. I have been btw doing it before proz.com membership time. Setting me back does not reflect any add... See more I was thinking about solving this issue. Just like a translator´s profile is made public as a matter of routing, I would suggest that the outsourcer´s information is equally made public depite as many filters. This is just fairness. Filters have already been introduced to posting that require credentials and I know it is my freedom to tap the potential in other areas when I contact an outsourcer. I have been btw doing it before proz.com membership time. Setting me back does not reflect any added potential in a plantinum or gold or other premium membership. Brandis ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Visibility of profiles | Mar 30, 2008 |
Brandis wrote:
I was thinking about solving this issue. Just like a translator´s profile is made public as a matter of routing, I would suggest that the outsourcer´s information is equally made public depite as many filters. This is just fairness.
Outsourcers' profiles and freelancers' profiles are equally visible.
Regards,
Enrique
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