| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Posting Answers AND Giving "Disagrees" Thread poster: Taylor Kirk
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Erik Freitag 
Germany
Local time: 06:12
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
LittleBalu wrote:
There used to be one answerer in my language pairs a while ago whose mother tongue was neither German nor English, and who kept posting answers that were so blatantly wrong that disagreeing with them was almost a "must".
I think I remember who you are referring to, and I must say, I almost miss his "contributions" sometimes.
I'm with the others who think that disagreeing with peers and posting your own answer are not mutually exlusive. Quite the contrary: I think that this would improve the overall quality of the Kudoz section. I take the agree/disagree function quite literally: I disagree when I think a peer's suggestion is wrong. This does not mean I know a correct solution, hence I don't necessarily post my own answer. However, if I post an answer, I can still believe that other peer's suggestions are correct, while other's aren't, so I can disagree with the incorrect ones, even when I've posted my own.
I'm surprised at how personal some people take a disagree. I understand that this may be a cultural issue, but still, we're professionals, and should behave accordingly.
I have taken my share of disagrees, and I've learnt from them. When disagreeing with someone, I'm not questioning their competency (except in cases as the one mentioned above )
Just my 2 cents,
best regards,
Erik
[Bearbeitet am 2008-05-06 07:24]
| | | | Woodstock (X)
Germany
Local time: 06:12
German to English
+ ...
| That's what I mean about learning tolerance | May 6, 2008 |
taylorreigne wrote:
I understand your opinions, it could go either way depending on the answer. Does it make a difference is someone tends to do this on most of their posts? (Asking your opnion). I still don't think I would both disagree and enter my own answer; some of these posts seem to get a little catty and I'm very non-confrontational...
As I mentioned above, try to be tolerant of these types of people. Believe me, they are noticed (as you have) and will be avoided, i.e. not be approached for interesting assignments by colleagues. We are all so different, and there are cultural differences as well, as someone pointed out earlier, we just can't expect other people to behave the same as we do. So "do your own thing" and ignore the others, even if it is hard. I know, I speak from experience.
Cheers!
| | | | | The "How To" of disagreeing | May 6, 2008 |
efreitag wrote:
I'm surprised at how personal some people take a disagree. I understand that this may be a cultural issue, but still, we're professionals, and should behave accordingly.
Fully agree. But there's also more than one way of telling an answerer that his/her answer is wrong. When somebody disagrees with my answer by simply stating that it's nonsense without explaining why, then I tend to take it personally also. When disagreeing with an answer (which I only do when I'm 100% sure it's wrong), I usually write something like, "Sorry, but ... (and explain the reason(s) for disagreeing)". When I did so the other day, I got the reply, "Please, don't be sorry for disagreeing with a wrong answer." That's precisely how it should be. No offence meant, no offence taken.
| | | | tazdog (X)
Spain
Local time: 06:12
Spanish to English
+ ...
| I do both when the circumstances warrant | May 6, 2008 |
GoodWords wrote:
You mention that entering an answer is an implicit "disagree,", but I don't find this to be invariably the case. I might suggest an answer when I don't think that any of the existing answers are wrong, but I still think my suggestion is better. In this case, I would not put a "disagree" on any of the existing answers. In a different situation, where I think the existing answer(s) is/are completely wrong, I believe it is important to be able to indicate this, as a service to the asker. I also contribute my own suggested answer if able to do so.
I agree with this, 100%. Sometimes a flat-out wrong answer gets an agree and then picks up several more because of the bandwagon effect, and it needs a disagree pointing out why the answer is wrong, even if I give another answer myself.
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| appreciate the disagrees | May 6, 2008 |
As an answerer, I appreciate it when someone disagrees and takes the time to spell out the reasons--it helps me fine-tune my own skills and expand my knowledge. There's been times when a misreading or misinterpretation has been pointed out to me that made me wish I could go back and disagree with my own answer! If they've also got a better or more correct solution, they should certainly provide it for the asker.
| | | | | Deleting an incorrect answer | May 6, 2008 |
I have on occasions got completely the wrong end of the stick and offered an incorrect answer to a question. When a disagree points this out (it may be obvious or may need explaining), my move is then to delete the answer, with the justification being that I now believe it to be wrong, so that it will no longer appear to anyone consulting the answer in the future via term searches etc. I have no wish to leave misleading comments for other users. Likewise, this is why I lodge disagrees or neutral... See more I have on occasions got completely the wrong end of the stick and offered an incorrect answer to a question. When a disagree points this out (it may be obvious or may need explaining), my move is then to delete the answer, with the justification being that I now believe it to be wrong, so that it will no longer appear to anyone consulting the answer in the future via term searches etc. I have no wish to leave misleading comments for other users. Likewise, this is why I lodge disagrees or neutrals (depending I fear on perceived sensitivity of the original answerer!) - for future reference. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 06:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Some points... | May 6, 2008 |
taylorreigne wrote:
...since entering an answer is an implicit "disagree"
Quite often not. Giving your own answer simply means that you think you can give a better answer than the best existing answer. It doesn't mean you disagree with the existing answers.
| | | | | An annoying habit | May 6, 2008 |
I also sometimes stumble upon KudoZ questions that have five answers and where one of the answerers posted a disagree on each of the other answers, sometimes without even giving an explanation on why they disagree. I find this annoying.
However, there are situations where this is acceptable. Sometimes, the person posts one or two disagrees without submitting an answer, and comes back hours later to post their own answer. They didn't intend to answer at first, but the answer popped i... See more I also sometimes stumble upon KudoZ questions that have five answers and where one of the answerers posted a disagree on each of the other answers, sometimes without even giving an explanation on why they disagree. I find this annoying.
However, there are situations where this is acceptable. Sometimes, the person posts one or two disagrees without submitting an answer, and comes back hours later to post their own answer. They didn't intend to answer at first, but the answer popped in hours later when they were doing something totally different. In such cases, disagreeing and answering is fine, in my opinion.
Also, some users post their own answers and disagree with one or two other answers not because they want to win points but because they just KNOW that those other answers are totally wrong and want to help the asker to avoid using an answer that will surely butcher their text. Sometimes, a disagree is meant to warn an asker rather than discredit the answerer - although I admit that with the increasing size of the points grabber population, this is rare. I can even imagine answerers being scolded when they were really only trying to help.
However, I agree that in most cases, multiple disagrees accompanied by an answer are simply cases of "Pick me! Pick me!!!". And that is truly annoying.
I think answerers should be reminded once in a while that the point of KudoZ is helping out fellow translators and not promoting oneself. That being said, most outsourcers are smart enough to notice such patterns when looking at a user's KudoZ activity, and I think that even with such rather rude practices, we are safe. ▲ Collapse
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Joan Berglund
United States
Local time: 00:12
Member (2008)
French to English
| posting disagrees | May 7, 2008 |
I tend to post disagrees only when two answers are running neck and neck and I strongly believe one is much better than the other - neither of which is my own. When I have entered an answer of my own, I generally post "neutrals" if I have comments on other answers, but I am just being polite, in fact I do disagree and should probably say so. It's just such an angry-looking shade of red, makes me uncomfortable. Must be a WASP thing. But I will never understand -- and apparently never shut up ... See more I tend to post disagrees only when two answers are running neck and neck and I strongly believe one is much better than the other - neither of which is my own. When I have entered an answer of my own, I generally post "neutrals" if I have comments on other answers, but I am just being polite, in fact I do disagree and should probably say so. It's just such an angry-looking shade of red, makes me uncomfortable. Must be a WASP thing. But I will never understand -- and apparently never shut up about -- why askers don't check the answers for themselves before accepting them, regardless of what everyone else says. Makes me crazy. They could at least check the references actually posted, I have seen some very dubious ones. For example, the answer offered is "this phrase" and in support they enter a google search summary that reads "...this. Phrase". I would have a problem with that if I were the asker. I would also have a problem with answers like "highly-unlikely foreign sounding phrase" posted by a non-native, with www.whatever.sourcecountry offered as reference. I would at least want to glance at the document and make sure it wasn't just someone else's bad translation. It often is. Enough ranting.
[Edited at 2008-05-07 02:30] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 06:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| When to disagree | May 7, 2008 |
Joan Berglund wrote:
When I have entered an answer of my own, I generally post "neutrals" if I have comments on other answers, but I am just being polite, in fact I do disagree and should probably say so.
I think it is interesting to see how different people decide when to post a neutral and when to post a disagree. If disagrees didn't count any points, I'd post a lot more disagrees. But because I know a disagree will penalise the answerer, I only use it when I strongly disagree.
For example, if the answerer made a spelling error in his answer but his answer is basically correct, I would post a neutral with the correction of spelling. If disagrees hadn't counted any points, I would have posted a disagree instead.
| | | | Gina W
United States
Local time: 00:12
Member (2003)
French to English
| I'm late getting into this discussion, but don't see this as a problem either | May 12, 2008 |
Ralf Lemster wrote:
Hi Taylor,
I recall situations where I have disagreed with answers provided, and also posted an own answer. Frankly, I don't see what else should be done if an answer provided is, in my opinion - wrong.
Best regards,
Ralf
I agree with Ralf. Actually, there is an argument that has been made in the past that it doesn't make sense to "disagree" yet NOT enter your own correct answer besides. The "disagree" is not necessarily to bump up one's own answer, it can be linguistically based.
As far as when to post a disagree, my understanding is that a disagree should be posted only when an answer is actually incorrect - and even then, no one is obligated to enter a disagree, it's perfectly ok to enter a neutral. Answerers are not supposed to take disagrees personally, though I do have to admit that becomes difficult when it is a person who is rude about it and/or has a general attitude when participating in KudoZ. In my opinion, I think that each user/member should definitely be posting more agrees and neutrals than disagrees. I am not on KudoZ as much anymore, but I do recall one person in my language pair who posted so many disagrees, and sometimes to quite old, closed questions. Not sure what his/her point was, if we were supposed to gather that most answers given are just crap or something. Also there was one instance where a person posted a disagree to an answer I'd already chosen, then an agree with another answer (which, btw, my client found to be incorrect in their context), and the person proceeded to post snide remarks not only along with those agree/disagree, but also in the "Ask the Asker" box. Not sure why the person couldn't simply disagree and then move on besides. It just seems more respectful of others not to get carried away with disagrees. JMO.
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