Good manners Thread poster: Daphne Corral (X)
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Daphne Corral (X) 
Local time: 21:40
English to Spanish
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I would like to post a suggestion regarding good manners when disagreeing and in general. We are all doing our best but some of us tend to be rather aggressive.
| | | | elenaluke (X)
Local time: 01:40
| Manners in relation to native/non-native speakers | Jul 3, 2008 |
I agree that manners are important, however sometimes they are an expression of rather a widespread perception of "native speakers' linguistic superiority".
This attitude often leads to poorly disguised arrogance on the part of native speakers, (e.g. "Literal translation is good English", "I have the priviledge of speaking my own tongue", "They don't speak like this in Russia", etc.). On the other hand, non-native speakers often obsequously degrade their non-native colleagues in fav... See more I agree that manners are important, however sometimes they are an expression of rather a widespread perception of "native speakers' linguistic superiority".
This attitude often leads to poorly disguised arrogance on the part of native speakers, (e.g. "Literal translation is good English", "I have the priviledge of speaking my own tongue", "They don't speak like this in Russia", etc.). On the other hand, non-native speakers often obsequously degrade their non-native colleagues in favour of native speakers.
I would encourage my colleagues to remember that most of us have common language roots, shared international communication needs and a noble mission. Maybe this will help to maintain respect to each other, and as a result - good manners. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Daphne Corral (X)
Local time: 21:40
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
Elena, what a good description and excellent choice of words!! I have nothing else to say. You have said it all.
| | | | | Good manners in the forum | Jul 3, 2008 |
I would just like to extend the original request for good manners to the forum.
I, as well as many of our colleagues, offer a helping hand in certain threads (mostly technical) and I am regularly stunned by people asking for help who don't even say as much as "this solution worked for me". Some people don't even reply at all. Never mind thanks or cheers - at least, please acknowledge that we have been helpful. Otherwise, what's the point of helping out if we don't even know if we we... See more I would just like to extend the original request for good manners to the forum.
I, as well as many of our colleagues, offer a helping hand in certain threads (mostly technical) and I am regularly stunned by people asking for help who don't even say as much as "this solution worked for me". Some people don't even reply at all. Never mind thanks or cheers - at least, please acknowledge that we have been helpful. Otherwise, what's the point of helping out if we don't even know if we were of assistance?
If we were doing this in person, would you simply walk away without saying a word after someone handed you your lost wallet? ▲ Collapse
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Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 18:40
English to Spanish
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In memoriam | Doing our best | Jul 3, 2008 |
One of the problems, I think, is that we are actually NOT all doing our best. That includes both askers and answerers. I think if people would try harder to do their best as the professionals they are or aspire to be, then the atomosphere would improve.
| | | | Daphne Corral (X)
Local time: 21:40
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
You are right. But still, Henry, it is a question of good manners.
| | | | The Misha
Local time: 20:40
Russian to English
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| Yes, I positively insist on my "thank yous" too ... | Jul 4, 2008 |
... and refuse to answer questions from people who are too busy, important, careless (pompous? arrogant? unprofessional?). I also make a point of letting them know in the Ask the Asker section why I choose to ignore their questions. I strongly urge all of you to do the same.
| | | | | I couldn´t agree more... | Jul 4, 2008 |
elenaluke wrote:
I agree that manners are important, however sometimes they are an expression of rather a widespread perception of "native speakers' linguistic superiority".
Not long ago, I asked our colleagues if they could help me translate an expression from Spanish into English. A native English speaker offered her help immediately and her response received "approval" by someone who wanted to make it very clear that he was supporting her, not helping me. They were equal, I was the outcast.
Despite the reduced space that the "agree" setting allows you, he offered me a lecture on why he no longer helped non-native translators with their questions.
We all have moments of "linguistic weakness", even in our own language. Accepting that we need help makes us better professionals.
On the other hand, I can´t understand why some people think they are so skilled as to determine whether someone´s linguistic competence is good enough or not, and behave as if they were the only ones in possession of linguistic knowledge. They are native speakers, they think, that should suffice. Not only that, they need to tell the world about it, just in case us incompetent non-native translators didn´t know.
A comment like that is not manners, it´s pure arrogance.
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| Aggressivity... | Jul 4, 2008 |
I wasn't greatly surprised to see your comments here Daphne, and can think of a specific instance when you were the butt of what you rightly call aggressivity. I felt for you at the time!
There are several members (and now I'm not referring to this particular incident) who seem to get so worked up about things that I often feel very reticent about agreeing with another answerer or disagreeing/being neutral about their answers... This situation is not of course beneficial to Proz (th... See more I wasn't greatly surprised to see your comments here Daphne, and can think of a specific instance when you were the butt of what you rightly call aggressivity. I felt for you at the time!
There are several members (and now I'm not referring to this particular incident) who seem to get so worked up about things that I often feel very reticent about agreeing with another answerer or disagreeing/being neutral about their answers... This situation is not of course beneficial to Proz (that sounds very arrogant, come to think of it, since it seems to imply that my contributions are vital, but I imagine you know what I mean!).
As you say, we're all doing our best (and we all have our bad days or senior moments!), so a little bit of diplomacy doesn't go amiss in handling replies, however strongly we feel that someone else is wrong. Noone likes being disagreed with, myself included, but if the disagree is gracefully expressed, and, perhaps more importantly, backed up with explanation/references, then it is beneficial to all. ▲ Collapse
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The Misha wrote:
... I also make a point of letting them know in the Ask the Asker section why I choose to ignore their questions. I strongly urge all of you to do the same.
This could be out of line with at least two KudoZ rules:
1.3. Text boxes may be used only for their intended purposes. For example: * The "Ask the Asker" box makes it possible to ask for additional information concerning a question or its context. * The answerer's explanation box is intended for providing justification of a suggested translation. * Reference boxes provide a place for links to online resources that the asker and others may consult for confirmation. Use of the above form fields for purposes other than those described is prohibited. For example, comments such as 'Studied medicine for 3 years' should be entered in the explanation box, not in the reference boxes. http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_general/1.3#1.3
3.7 Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, is not allowed. Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited (whether posted publicly, made directly to the person in question, or made to another site user). http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7
| | | | Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 18:40
English to Spanish
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In memoriam
Some rules make no sense, for instance:
...grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited...
I have only done it on very few occasions, but when I have seen an asker accept a manifestly erroneous answer, one that can break a translator's credibility and reputation and possibly damage an end client's situation in some way...
...then I do not remain silent. I send a private message to the asker hoping ... See more Some rules make no sense, for instance:
...grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited...
I have only done it on very few occasions, but when I have seen an asker accept a manifestly erroneous answer, one that can break a translator's credibility and reputation and possibly damage an end client's situation in some way...
...then I do not remain silent. I send a private message to the asker hoping to save them on time.
I have saved a few, and have received thanks for that.
You telling me that's wrong? ▲ Collapse
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