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The KudoZ Quality Campaign - My Suggestions
Thread poster: xxxCHENOUMI
xxxCHENOUMI  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
Jun 10, 2003

The following suggestions are my contribution to the KudoZ Quality Campaign.

1) Squashed questions and appropriate notification

Last Saturday, I squashed a question with sexual overtone in the EN > HC pair. The asker is probably still awaiting an answer. Would it be possible in the future to notify all askers that their question has been squashed, along with the stated reason.

2) Changing the language pair for a KudoZ question

It is not possible for the time being to change a wrong language pair for a question without squashing it altogether or asking it again. Fixing the inconvenience would be recommendable.

3) Yearly computing of KudoZ scores

Last March, in my reply to this posting www.proz.com/topic/9770?post_id=60347, I suggested that KudoZ scores be tallied on an annual basis. I was pleased this morning to read that the same suggestion was made by a French colleague. I was then explaining why it would be wise to do so: a) New members would not be intimidated by the existing significant gap between KudoZ leaders and themselves, and would not hence refrain from participating; b) We would not be missing out on very valuable insight from other experienced and qualified translators worldwide; c) The KudoZ experience would not be confined to an inner circle in which newcomers have no upper hands; d) The game would thus appear to be fair to all playing on a levelled ground.

I also stressed in a following response within that particular thread - See A Post-Scriptum to My Suggestion - that the past record of our distinguished KudoZ leaders should remain at all times visible, while the new annual score is being displayed. Therefore, the idea should, in no way, be construed as an attempt to snatch their total points away or to annihilate their previous contributions.

4) Time stamp the peer-gradings

Most of the time, an asker goes by the number of peer responses, and can be wrongly influenced or misled. If a date and time are affixed to the peer-gradings, it can become clear then that the other answers came afterwards and were not properly assessed by the same peer-graders.

5) Hasty grading by askers

We often realize with awe or sadness that best answers have an astounding way of emerging at the very last moment, or after a speedy grading. If an asker is instructed - when asking questions - to wait at least 24 hours, before selecting, such caution would allow a maximum of answers to be given, and most importantly, for the best answer to be chosen.

6) Hasty peer-grading and its nefarious consequences

In the same vein, there should be a minimum time for our peer-grading. The purpose would be to prevent askers from grading answers before a minimum 24-hour period. Likewise, we would not intervene until after a certain number of answers have been generated, and after the same basic 24-hour period.
Why? Because the first answer usually reflects one single perspective (usually the most obvious or common meaning of a term) - not its contextual meaning, and may be based on a hunch which may or may not prove to be true.

**By synchronizing the time for both grading and peer-grading, the KudoZ system will greatly improve and perform as it was meant to be: a beneficial and convenient tool for both askers and answerers.





































[Edited at 2003-06-12 21:51]


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murat karahan  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 00:14
English to Turkish
+ ...
I second all but one... Jun 10, 2003

number 6 Imposing a time limit on peer grading seems a little unrealizable, it could lead to a delay when the asker is in a haste.
Rash grading is a problem. I used to provide answers after the question was graded where the asker had chosen a deadly wrong answer but gave up because of ungrateful comments. A time stamp for peers would do good. One more thing to add, I sometimes receive peers to my answers dating two-three years back, definitely the work of a browniz hunter. I suggest that peer grading after a certain time span should not be possible.
These are my 2 cents.

[Edited at 2003-06-10 19:52]

[Edited at 2003-06-11 04:31]


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:14
Member (2000)
Russian to English
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Belated post grading has its uses Jun 10, 2003

I used to take Murat's view of peer gradings coming in after a delay of months or even years, until I realised that in cases where an answer had not been selected by the asker, nor by the robot because no-one had more than one peer grade (even if only one person had any peer grade), this might give the one-grade answerer the requisite second peer grade for the robot to award the points.

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xxxCHENOUMI  Identity Verified
English to French
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Belated post-grading not an issue here. Jun 10, 2003

My thread and the above suggestions do not apply to cases where translators perform belated peer-grading, one month or one year later.

The idea is to have a time-stamped system for peer-gradings that occur on time so as to enable good judgement from the asker when making a choice.
For instance, if an answer got X number of positive peer-gradings, while a better one - because it has not been made timely - did not get any, the asker could clearly see the time gap and infer the right conclusion.

Currently, we can see the date each answer has been posted as well as the date and time when notes are added. A similar time stamping system would be useful for the purpose hereby suggested.

Jack Doughty wrote:Belated post grading has its uses.










[Edited at 2003-06-11 00:38]


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invguy  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 00:14
English to Bulgarian
KudoZ in context Jun 11, 2003

[quote]CHENOUMI wrote:
3) Yearly computing of KudoZ scores

I think the best solution would be to mention the time period during which KudoZ points had been added. Thus, having 1000 points within a year would correctly compare to having 200 points within a month. Also, those who have thousands of points would not be periodically 'robbed' - simply the number of points would be viewed in time context, which IMO is fair.

Another idea (actually just a suggestion - not too sure about it): mentioning the total of given answers together with awarded KudoZ points. I mean, having 400 points out of 150 submitted answers would be different from having 400 points out of 1500 answers. Probably this would reduce 'blind shots' and save bandwidth. OTOH it would discourage submitting guesses, while guessing could be pretty valuable at times...


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murat karahan  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 00:14
English to Turkish
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A late agree Jun 11, 2003

Agree with you on the timestamping of peer grades. Another option could be forwarding peer grades to the asker. I believe this is not the case right now. That way, provided they have a reliable mail server, the asker could be notified of the peers instantly. But this could have a setback, it may increase the number of ungraded questions since askers wouldn't need to go back to proz to see the peer grades. But it could be a possible platinum feature.
Am I wrong in assuming that people hesitate to give peer grades to a later and more appropriate answer if they have already graded a previous one? Maybe there should be a way of withdrawing peer grades too. Just brainstorming after a long night




[quote]CHENOUMI wrote:


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xxxCHENOUMI  Identity Verified
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
A belated Thanks :) Jun 11, 2003

Thank you Murat for your belated agree.:) In this KudoZ Quality Campaign, as in everything else in life, where there is will, there is power.

I believe that with an open mind and good will, every positive step can be taken in order to improve the system.
Hope that good suggestions - whomever they come from - be taken in due consideration.

Good night.









[Edited at 2003-06-11 09:25]


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xxxCHENOUMI  Identity Verified
English to French
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Well taken. Jun 11, 2003

I think the best solution would be to mention the time period during which KudoZ points had been added. Thus, having 1000 points within a year would correctly compare to having 200 points within a month.
.

Hi Invguy,

Good point. I place myself in the shoes of an outsider looking at the list. The way I think it affects fellow members is when others see a list of KudoZ leaders with someone trailing with 4 points for instance. There is no mention of membership time (which might be very recent), rate of participation (i.e. how often does the member participate in KudoZ), time of absence etc.

Such factors should be clearly indicated on the list as well, should it remain in place. Otherwise, it does not accurately reflect every member's role and input.

Perhaps I should not play the devil's advocate, but our collective image would also improve.






[Edited at 2003-06-11 09:20]


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lien
Netherlands
Local time: 23:14
English to French
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Right on it Jun 11, 2003

You put the finger right on it about what is REALLY the problem with the Kudoz! And this is the best solution I read so far about "the points".

I have in mind the ones who only pass on the termium definition, one minute after the question is asked. It is easy this way to answer 1500 questions.

Lien
invguy wrote:
I mean, having 400 points out of 150 submitted answers would be different from having 400 points out of 1500 answers. Probably this would reduce 'blind shots' and save bandwidth. OTOH it would discourage submitting guesses, while guessing could be pretty valuable at times...


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GoodWords  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 15:14
Spanish to English
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Language pairs can be changed Jun 11, 2003

CHENOUMI wrote:

2) Changing the language pair for a KudoZ question

It is not possible for the time being to change a wrong language pair for a question without squashing it altogether or asking it again. Fixing the inconvenience would be recommendable.


I believe that it is possible: I have done it. Comment from staff?


[Edited at 2003-06-11 13:26]


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Rick Henry  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:14
Italian to English
+ ...
Changing language pairs Jun 11, 2003

GoodWords wrote:
I believe that it is possible: I have done it. Comment from staff?

I´ve also been able to do this, although I haven´t done it recently.

R.
==


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Cilian O'Tuama
Local time: 23:14
German to English
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Number after names to show how many answers already given? Jun 11, 2003

CHENOUMI wrote:
The idea is to have a time-stamped system for peer-gradings that occur on time so as to enable good judgement from the asker when making a choice.
For instance, if an answer got X number of positive peer-gradings, while a better one - because it has not been made timely - did not get any, the asker could clearly see the time gap and infer the right conclusion.
[Edited at 2003-06-11 00:38]


IMO it would be helpful if the asker could see how many answers had already been submitted when the various peer comments were made, maybe in the form of a number next to the commenter's name.


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xxxCHENOUMI  Identity Verified
English to French
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GoodWords, Rick, And Cilian Jun 12, 2003

Acknowledging your time and contribution. Thank you.
As to changing the language pair, I believe it is not possible, because I tried to do it unsuccessfully before. We won't probably know since we are engaged here in a monologue of one camp.

Cilian,
IMO it would be helpful if the asker could see how many answers had already been submitted when the various peer comments were made, maybe in the form of a number next to the commenter's name.

Your idea is totally in tune with mine!

Too bad that such great ideas are bound to be quickly dismissed and will amount to a waste of time on our part! (((((

[Edited at 2003-06-12 16:37]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:14
English to German
+ ...
Not a waste of time at all... Jun 12, 2003

Hi Chenoumi,
As to changing the language pair, I believe it is not possible, because I tried to do it unsuccessfully before.

It is possible (in fact, I just did it on a test question where I changed the target from zzzOtherzzz to Zhuang), but that editing right is restricted. I have asked Jason in this respect, and await his answer.

Too bad that such great ideas are bound to be quickly dismissed and will amount to a waste of time on our part! (((((

Not so - you may be aware that Henry and his team are working on revamping the KudoZ design and functionality; without giving away too much, I can confirm that one of your suggestions has already been implemented.

Best regards, Ralf


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xxxCHENOUMI  Identity Verified
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
Vielen Dank, Ralf! Jun 12, 2003

Not so - you may be aware that Henry and his team are working on revamping the KudoZ design and functionality; without giving away too much, I can confirm that one of your suggestions has already been implemented.


Hi Ralf,

It is quite comforting to finally receive an official feedback!
Otherwise, we might think that our suggestions fall in deaf ears...
Your gesture is greatly appreciated!

Sandra



[Edited at 2003-06-13 05:40]


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