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Mandatory wait time for awarding kudoz
Thread poster: Yngve Roennike

Yngve Roennike  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:29
Danish to English
+ ...
Feb 6, 2002

I suggest that a 24 hour lag requirement be instituted for grading queries. By the time US residents log in, most questions having been made that day are already answered and graded on account of the time difference. The motivation for answering yellow-tagged questions seems to wane considerably among kudoz obsessed translators since no kudoz points can be awarded any more.





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jccantrell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:29
Member (2005)
German to English
+ ...
Imposed waiting would not serve any purpose Feb 7, 2002

If the asker can wait for the USA and he wants to get the benefit of USA experience, then the asker can wait the 24 hours all by himself without the need to have a waiting period imposed by the management.



If the asker does not have the time to wait for the USA, then he must decide among the choices offered and award the points accordingly.



I do not see any benefit to enforcing a waiting period. In fact, if we do institute a waiting period, I believe we will see more people NOT awarding points at all simply because they have used the best choice within 24 hours and never come back to award points.



It just comes down to the asker deciding whether he wants to wait for more input or not.


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Yngve Roennike  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:29
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Feb 7, 2002

[quote]

>>On 2002-02-07 00:04, jccantrell wrote:

If the asker can wait for the USA and he wants to get the benefit of USA experience, then the asker can wait the 24 hours all by himself without the need to have a waiting period imposed by the management.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:29
English to German
+ ...
24h is definitely too long Feb 7, 2002

I generally agree with jccantrell\'s view. What might be considered, though, is a mandatory waiting period of, say, 30 minutes, to avoid situations where people \'jump\' for an answer while most notified ProZ members (in the same time zone)haven\'t even had a chance to look at the question.

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Yngve Roennike  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:29
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Feb 7, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-02-07 07:22, Lemster wrote:

I generally agree with jccantrell\'s view. What might be considered, though, is a mandatory waiting period of, say, 30 minutes, to avoid situations where people \'jump\' for an answer while most notified ProZ members (in the same time zone)haven\'t even had a chance to look at the question.



I just don\'t understand the answers to this post. I mean what is the rationale and urgency of awarding kudoz points quickly. This should be done after a \"cooling-off\" period, e.g,. by pressing the award button, a pop-up message could be saying something like you might consider waiting untill all answers are in.



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John Kinory
Local time: 14:29
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Obsession with kudoz? Feb 7, 2002

As is often the case in Proz, all the previous comments concentrate on the trivial, to the exclusion of the really important.

What is important is not whether people get a chance to grab points, but whether the asker has the sense to hear a variety of opinions before choosing one answer. All too often, the first answer is awarded the points. And all too often, it is wrong (sometimes, ludicrously so!).

By the way, the USA/Europe thing works both ways. As you may have noticed, we live on a rotating sphere. When West Coast questions are asked in the evening, most Europeans are asleep. So they get to \'suffer\', too.
[addsig]


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jccantrell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:29
Member (2005)
German to English
+ ...
Asker must decide Feb 7, 2002

What I was trying to say before is that sometimes, a question is asked where the translator may be under extreme time pressure and NOT have the luxury of waiting 24 h for answers. If someone suggests something that the translator finds appropriate, what is wrong with him awarding the points right away?



I view this as similar to a marketplace. The asker puts out his request and then waits for responses, which are similar to bids. If the first response meets with his approval, why should he be required to wait for others? If not, he can wait until he gets one that does meet with his approval. This is strictly up to the asker to decide.



From my experience with the American Translator\'s Association, there are a few translators here in the USA, too. I do not feel Kudoz is in any danger of becoming a European club with little or no American participation.



I was just trying to say that there should not be any fiats from above compelling users to act sensibly. If the users wish to cut off their noses to spite their faces, Proz should not try to stop them.



As for looking at answers that have already been finished, I will do that only if I am interested in the term originally asked. So you are right that awarding the points does cause potential answers to be lost. However, that is the nature of the game.



I say, let the users decide for themselves, most of us are big boys and girls!


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xxxJon Zuber
Spanish to English
+ ...
Maybe we should just bag the point system altogether. Feb 7, 2002

When you look at the lists of top answerers and see people who are there because they answer every last question that comes down the pike and get a certain percentage of their usually wrong offerings selected by askers even more clueless than they, you have to ask yourself what the point of points is. The point system just seems to engender endless abuse and squabbling.

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Yngve Roennike  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:29
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Feb 8, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-02-07 22:05, Jon Zuber wrote:

When you look at the lists of top answerers and see people who are there because they answer every last question that comes down the pike and get a certain percentage of their usually wrong offerings selected by askers even more clueless than they, you have to ask yourself what the point of points is. The point system just seems to engender endless abuse and squabbling.





I find the above to be an excellent post. Please repost under a separate heading addressing this issue head on.



Yngve

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Suzanne Blangsted  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:29
Danish to English
+ ...
Let's stop giving points. Feb 8, 2002

In my opinion the point system should be avoided. There are apparently some folks who \"collect\" points without giving a well researched or knowledgeable answer to the asker, and the asker might not realize that the answer was given to gain points and not necessary to improve quality of translation. This endangers the quality of a translation project. When the asker \"translator\" is not really a qualified to take on the project, the asker is left out in the cold. I believe Yngve\'s frustration is caused by a wrong answer being accepted when a more qualified (and correct) answer is given shortly afterwards. We should be able to help each other out of our desire to improve translation quality and not be doing it for credits.

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Rick Henry  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:29
Italian to English
+ ...
I agree that something should be done about kudoZ, but... Feb 8, 2002

as it stands, kudoZ is pretty fundamental to the site, and to a translator\'s visibility on the site. When someone comes to proZ to look for a translator, the search results shown are sorted (decending order) by number of points accumulated in all three categories - Plat., Prem., Non-paying. It would be great if we could somehow do away with the asker grading the question. If we were all pros, this wouldn\'t be a problem, but all askers are not pros. Askers range from school children to aspiring translators to full professional translators. I\'m not sure that letting peers do the grading is really the answer either, but it\'s probably an improvement over the asker grading the question.



R.

==

Quote:


On 2002-02-08 20:53, BLANGSTED wrote:

In my opinion the point system should be avoided. There are apparently some folks who \"collect\" points without giving a well researched or knowledgeable answer to the asker, and the asker might not realize that the answer was given to gain points and not necessary to improve quality of translation. This endangers the quality of a translation project. When the asker \"translator\" is not really a qualified to take on the project, the asker is left out in the cold. I believe Yngve\'s frustration is caused by a wrong answer being accepted when a more qualified (and correct) answer is given shortly afterwards. We should be able to help each other out of our desire to improve translation quality and not be doing it for credits.



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xxxJon Zuber
Spanish to English
+ ...
There have to be better ways of ranking. Feb 8, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-02-08 21:30, Rick Henry wrote:

as it stands, kudoZ is pretty fundamental to the site, and to a translator\'s visibility on the site. When someone comes to proZ to look for a translator, the search results shown are sorted (decending order) by number of points accumulated in all three categories - Plat., Prem., Non-paying.



And that\'s problematic with members sporting undeserved points. The essential idea —that those of demonstrated ability get pride of place— is sound, but KudoZ totals long ago ceased to be that demonstration, if they ever were. Perhaps something like average grade per answer offered (so that unselected answers go into the equation as zeros, which ought to cut down on wild stabs) would be better.

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-02-11 22:39 ]

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Yngve Roennike  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:29
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Kudoz assignment Feb 11, 2002

Although this was not what I originally had in mind when posting this discussion item, let me quickly just say whether or not you agree to the merit of assigning kudoz, per se, this question is apparently off the table alltogether, being at the core of Proz.com, which will go so far as to threathen you with exclusion from their forum, unless you grade answers.

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Yngve Roennike  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:29
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Still the same Feb 13, 2002

Logging on today, I have a stack of messages saying a query has been posted concerning this and that. When I log on, I find that practically all of them have been answered and graded, even by US residents posting questions in the middle of the night and grading a few minutes later. I mean, there is little incentive to participate in this game any longer. Does the asker even read proposals submitted after closure, if so, we sure don\'t get any feedback.

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GoodWords  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 08:29
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Notification *is* sent after closure Feb 13, 2002


I mean, there is little incentive to participate in this game any longer. Does the asker even read proposals submitted after closure,





The asker keeps receiving notifications of answers made even after closure. It is up to the asker whether to look at any late answers. I hope they do.



I would agree with a mandatory time of at least a few hours to avoid the situation where the asker jumps at the first answer and closes the question. In such cases the answer chosen is seldom the best answer possible, and often it is wrong. Only occasionally is the answer so obvious and correct that there is little point in keeping the question open.



When I ask a question, I usually keep it open until the first notification, even if I have already delivered the translation that contained the term. I seldom fail to learn something new that way.


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