BrowniZ for KudoZ answers that are not selected (T) Thread poster: Melina Kajander
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(This may have been suggested before, but at least I couldn't find anything on that...)
At the moment, one can get BrowniZ for even empty KudoZ 'agrees', but nothing on answers which are NOT selected - your effort is completely lost, you get absolutely nothing (neither KudoZ nor BrowniZ), even though answers demand much more time & effort than just 'agrees'!! So, I think every effort should be 'rewarded' somehow, and BrowniZ would in my opinion be a good way of doing it!
[S... See more (This may have been suggested before, but at least I couldn't find anything on that...)
At the moment, one can get BrowniZ for even empty KudoZ 'agrees', but nothing on answers which are NOT selected - your effort is completely lost, you get absolutely nothing (neither KudoZ nor BrowniZ), even though answers demand much more time & effort than just 'agrees'!! So, I think every effort should be 'rewarded' somehow, and BrowniZ would in my opinion be a good way of doing it!
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2005-02-02 20:10] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Against (sorry!) | Nov 20, 2003 |
Heli Kajander wrote:
your effort is completely lost, you get absolutely nothing (neither KudoZ nor BrowniZ), even though answers demand much more time & effort than just 'agrees'!! So, I think every effort should be 'rewarded' somehow, and BrowniZ would in my opinion be a good way of doing it!
Hi,
This is just a personal view, but I think it's good to leave some room for plain volunteering of information, without expecting to be paid in anything (but with the possibility of winning Kudoz, and therefore showing expertise, and also with learning through the research or even just the challenge in each question). This is the way it's in the forums, too, and I think it's fine: rewarding these activities would probably lead to yet another brand of site misuse: browniz harvesting, not through meaningless agrees (the way we see now) but through meaningless answers (or forum postings, for that matter): way more damaging, I think.
My 2c (no browniz attached)
Andrea
| | | | mbc
Spain
Local time: 03:01
Spanish to English
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| just for the fun of it | Nov 20, 2003 |
I agree with Andrea. I don´t post answers to get points but rather for fun and to learn something because a disagree can change a line of thought I´ve had for too long. Also, I like the idea, love it really, that I could one day help someone who has helped me in my time of need. Or maybe I will help another newcomer and instead of brownie points I´ll soak up the good karma...
| | | | | Answers automatically selected by peer grading | Nov 20, 2003 |
The current system includes automatic answer selection by peer grading. That means that if your answer gets the most net agrees (minimum number must be > 2), then your answer is automatically selected by the grading robot.
Before answers are automatically selected, the asker is sent several reminders asking them to grade their answer.
That means that (at least in my main language pair - De-En) only a very, very few questions are ever left totally ungraded.
... See more The current system includes automatic answer selection by peer grading. That means that if your answer gets the most net agrees (minimum number must be > 2), then your answer is automatically selected by the grading robot.
Before answers are automatically selected, the asker is sent several reminders asking them to grade their answer.
That means that (at least in my main language pair - De-En) only a very, very few questions are ever left totally ungraded.
I have to say that personally I think the current system works just fine. It means that answerers shouldn't just aim to convince the asker, but also to get as many peer agrees as possible.
If we move away from this system to a system which awards a mixture of browniz and kudoz for answering questions, then I think that this may well have a detrimental impact on the quality of the answers provided. It removes part of the incentive for answerers to provide the best possible answer - to convince the asker and to convince the answerer's peers.
My 2C.
Alison ▲ Collapse
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| lots of uses for answering | Nov 20, 2003 |
1) It keeps us in practice when work is scarce
2) It gives us an opportunity to repay the system for the help we get from it
3) The unchosen answers are still available in the glossaries and are often excellent
4) If someone reasonably consistently gives valuable answers their kudos (as opposed to kudoz) go up among their peers and might open the possibility of offers of work
So who needs BrowniZ?
| | | | | Did I misunderstand your initial posting? | Nov 20, 2003 |
I'm just wondering if I misunderstood your posting - you mean that you would like to get Browniz even if your answer is not the one selected?
I don't think that this is a good idea - the Kudoz are there as an incentive to provide the right answer. Giving all the answerers browniz might give some members a reason to provide "nonsense" answers - just to get a few browniz that they can use for bidding or checking blue board entries.....
Another 2C worth
Alison
| | | | nordiste 
France
Local time: 03:01
English to French
+ ...
| Sometimes it's nice to do something for free | Nov 20, 2003 |
I find the current system is just fine. I answer some questions, not very often because I have only a modem connexion so I don't stay online all the time. It comes always as a real pleasure to get some award in form of browniz or kudoz, and sometimes as a surprise too. As I don't have yet lot of working experience in translation (other than in the IT field) it gives me confidence.
I wouldn't change it. After all, I can use the whole ProZcom site facilities (forum, howtos, question/answer ... See more I find the current system is just fine. I answer some questions, not very often because I have only a modem connexion so I don't stay online all the time. It comes always as a real pleasure to get some award in form of browniz or kudoz, and sometimes as a surprise too. As I don't have yet lot of working experience in translation (other than in the IT field) it gives me confidence.
I wouldn't change it. After all, I can use the whole ProZcom site facilities (forum, howtos, question/answer ...) for free and it's really worth it.
I think it's the best you can find on the Internet : free, generous and quality colloboration all over the world. I value that ! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Why is everyone so negative... | Nov 20, 2003 |
Alison Riddell-Kachur wrote:
"you mean that you would like to get Browniz even if your answer is not the one selected?" Yes, that's exactly what I meant...
"Giving all the answerers browniz might give some members a reason to provide "nonsense" answers"
I have to admit, this is something I did not think of, when making my suggestion...
I wrote it after my recent experience, where I spent some time writing & researching for a KudoZ answer, and then another one wa... See more Alison Riddell-Kachur wrote:
"you mean that you would like to get Browniz even if your answer is not the one selected?" Yes, that's exactly what I meant...
"Giving all the answerers browniz might give some members a reason to provide "nonsense" answers"
I have to admit, this is something I did not think of, when making my suggestion...
I wrote it after my recent experience, where I spent some time writing & researching for a KudoZ answer, and then another one was chosen... And I felt like all that trouble had been in vain... I just felt it was a "screaming injustice" that you can get BrowniZ for an 'agree' on someone else's answer, even an empty agree, but NONE for an answer of your own, which you may have spent considerable time & effort writing!!!
Well, I said all this in my original post, but I think many of you have just rushed to a conclusion without giving my suggestion a real thought... (To me at least, it seemed like a brilliant idea!!)
Yes, on second thougth there would be some disadvantages, but IMHO they wouldn't be so great as in the present situation, well, see what I wrote above!!
(And I would presume the professionals at Proz.com would be professional enough to be above such childish 'point-grabbing' by meaningless replies, etc...? )
[Edited at 2003-11-21 11:14]
[Edited at 2003-11-21 11:15] ▲ Collapse
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two2tango
Argentina
Local time: 22:01
Member
English to Spanish
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| I agree with Andrea | Nov 21, 2003 |
Andrea Bullrich wrote:
rewarding these activities would probably lead to yet another brand of site misuse: browniz harvesting, not through meaningless agrees (the way we see now) but through meaningless answers
Plus new meaningless agrees to the new meaningless answers!
Andrea is right, you answer for joy, learning, recognition and the chance of winning KudoZ.
Answers are not suposed to be "paid".
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | I agree with you Heli!! | Nov 21, 2003 |
"At the moment, one can get BrowniZ for even empty KudoZ 'agrees', but nothing on answers which are NOT selected"
I agree with the points raised by the people who answered your question, but, still, what you say is simply logical!!
"Giving all the answerers browniz might give some members a reason to provide "nonsense" answers"
Why? If it works well with the "agree" system, why would it not with answers? Especially since it is much more tempting and simple to pr... See more "At the moment, one can get BrowniZ for even empty KudoZ 'agrees', but nothing on answers which are NOT selected"
I agree with the points raised by the people who answered your question, but, still, what you say is simply logical!!
"Giving all the answerers browniz might give some members a reason to provide "nonsense" answers"
Why? If it works well with the "agree" system, why would it not with answers? Especially since it is much more tempting and simple to press the agree button than to try to find an answer!
(And I would presume the proz at Proz.com would be professional enough to be above such childish 'point-grabbing' by meaningless replies, etc...? )
I agree on that too...
And I do not say that to be childish myself but because it is not the first time I notice such behaviour...
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| | | | Endre Both
Germany
Local time: 03:01
English to German
| The system is not that unfair after all | Nov 21, 2003 |
Heli Kajander wrote:
I wrote it after my recent experience, where I spent some time writing & researching for a KudoZ answer, and then another one was chosen... And I felt like all that trouble had been in vain...
I am confident that with KudoZ experience, this feeling will disappear. If we submit well-researched and well-founded contributions which do not duplicate answers that had arrived previously (which does happen, inadvertently, from time to time), we are bound to reap KudoZ points, if not for every such answer, than maybe for every second one. In fact, sometimes I am even rewarded for answers that wouldn't deserve it. So after all, even if some good answers don't earn points, I wouldn't consider them as pointless (excuse the pun). You should at least get an honest "thank you" from the asker, which to me does rival the value of KudoZ points. People who don't bother to say thanks (even--or especially--to those whose answers they did not select) greatly reduce their chances of getting a next answer from me.
And should small injustices still happen--in my experience they even out over time, as they tend to happen in our favour as well.
Heli Kajander wrote: (And I would presume the proz at Proz.com would be professional enough to be above such childish 'point-grabbing' by meaningless replies, etc...? )
Not (yet) so, unfortunately.
All the best,
Endre
EB Communications
[Edited at 2003-11-21 08:31]
| | | | | More on the matter... | Nov 21, 2003 |
Thanks for support, Marina!
For all the people who underline the importance of 'doing it for joy' in answering questions - I definitely agree that you don't always need to be 'paid' for you efforts & it's good to help others without getting any personal gain (otherwise I would hardly answer to KudoZ, etc.), BUT what I don't understand is why so many people at the same time underline why members have to pay for almost ... See more Thanks for support, Marina!
For all the people who underline the importance of 'doing it for joy' in answering questions - I definitely agree that you don't always need to be 'paid' for you efforts & it's good to help others without getting any personal gain (otherwise I would hardly answer to KudoZ, etc.), BUT what I don't understand is why so many people at the same time underline why members have to pay for almost everything in Proz.com, because 'nothing's free' (see for example the discussion in www.proz.com/topic/15572 about accessing Blue Board). I don't know about you, but to me something doesn't match here...
To answer to the person who asked "who needs BrowniZ", well, all non-Platinum members do (especially beginners)... At the moment, for example, I cannot even check the BlueBoard if I need to... And still, I don't want to give empty 'agrees' on all KudoZ questions I can, even though that would be an easy way to get points; in fact, I rather don't give any 'agrees' if I don't have anything intelligent & useful to add (well, in my opinion at least)!
[Edited at 2003-11-21 13:02] ▲ Collapse
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| Now I see, one gets BrowniZ for agrees | Nov 21, 2003 |
Hi Heli,
Unwantingly you just solved a mystery for me. I couldn't understand why simple answers on all too simple questions like "good night", "goodbye", etc could get up to seven "agrees". Didn't know you get BrowniZ for it.
As for your proposal ... I understand your frustration, it is much easier to "agree" on answers than to stick your neck out and provide an answer of your own. Personally I don't see why agrees should be rewarded. So there is something to your ide... See more Hi Heli,
Unwantingly you just solved a mystery for me. I couldn't understand why simple answers on all too simple questions like "good night", "goodbye", etc could get up to seven "agrees". Didn't know you get BrowniZ for it.
As for your proposal ... I understand your frustration, it is much easier to "agree" on answers than to stick your neck out and provide an answer of your own. Personally I don't see why agrees should be rewarded. So there is something to your idea of giving some brownies for answers, which have not been chosen chosen, especially since askers often give the Kudoz to a wrong answer! ▲ Collapse
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