Waiting time before KudoZ comments can be entered (T)
Thread poster: David Russi

David Russi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:07
English to Spanish
+ ...
Dec 6, 2003

Just a thought, maybe this has been discussed before...

I've been thinking for some time that one of the flaws in the system is that when an answer is first posted, people can agree within the first few minutes (sometimes seconds) of its posting, and in doing so may be giving their support to an answer they might not choose if 2 or 3 others were posted as well.

Sometimes, this results in the initial answer having several agrees, even though later it is quite apparent that it would not be anyone's first choice.

If a short delay were instituted that would not allow entering comments, say for 5 to 10 minutes, in many instances people would have the benefit of several answers before entering an opinion.

What do you think?

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2005-02-02 19:50]


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xxxIanW
Local time: 07:07
German to English
+ ...
Or else ... Dec 6, 2003

Regarding David's suggestion, I'd like to point out that it is already possible to change one's answer from agree to neutral to disagree and back again. If I agreed with the first answer given and then a better one came along, I could delete my original agree. Or, presuming the original answer isn't actually incorrect, I could simply comment that I prefer the newer answer.

However, the problem is that it is only possible to edit agrees and comments if a comment was entered the first time. I've seen people entering a full stop in the comment field in order to give them the option of editing or modifying their agree/comment at a later stage.

So if it were technically possible to edit agrees and comments in all cases, that would solve this problem, wouldn't it?

Hope this helps


Ian


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PB Trans

Local time: 06:07
French to English
+ ...
I can't edit my comments Dec 7, 2003

Ian Winick wrote:

Regarding David's suggestion, I'd like to point out that it is already possible to change one's answer from agree to neutral to disagree and back again.
However, the problem is that it is only possible to edit agrees and comments if a comment was entered the first time.


I haven't been able to figure out how to do this. Is it because I am a non-platinum member? I have entered comments and I am still unable to edit. And in one instance, I asked a moderator to hide one of my comments and even though I received an email acknowledgement that the comment was hidden, it was still visible. I was told it was because I was logged in as myself and that was why I could still view it, but others have tried accessing that page from another computer and the comments were still there.

Is this happening to anyone else?


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 01:07
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Hi Pina Dec 7, 2003

Pina Nunes wrote:
I have entered comments and I am still unable to edit.

I think that everything you describe might be due to the fact that you seem to be using the old design.

If you're working in the new design, in the upper side of a KudoZ question you can see "Return to KudoZ Standard Design".
If you're in the "Standard" or old design,
you can see "Switch to New KudoZ Design (Beta Version)".

And in one instance, I asked a moderator to hide one of my comments and even though I received an email acknowledgement that the comment was hidden, it was still visible. I was told it was because I was logged in as myself and that was why I could still view it, but others have tried accessing that page from another computer and the comments were still there.


There was a bug. Some hidden answers were still visible (and they should not have been) in the old design. Usually you can see your hidden answers in grey (but not the hidden comments on other's answers, careful), and in red you can read "This answer has been made invisible to others."

Some bugs between old and new design are not going to be fixed because soon there should be only the new design available. So, better get used to it. [I mean to the new design, not to the bug]

[Edited at 2003-12-07 13:49]


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David Russi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:07
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I figured out how to edit comments... Dec 7, 2003

I just tried again, in the new design. You can, indeed, edit a written comment you entered, but not just a plain Agree.

This is, in my view, a flaw... the system should allow us to correct the Agree itself, even when no comment was entered, and allow a comment to be added later.

And I still think that a brief waiting period would make it possible for all of us to enter comments from a different perspective.

It also would eliminate the possibility of entering rushed Agree answers in the initial period, when the question is still being studied.

I wonder what percentage of us return to reconsider our response to the first answer.

[Edited at 2003-12-07 14:24]


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Endre Both  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 07:07
Member (2002)
English to German
Edition/deletion of "empty" comments under review Dec 7, 2003

ProZ staff is aware that there may be a case for editing and/or deleting empty comments, and a change is under review.

Regarding your suggestion to impose a waiting period, it seems to me that a balance must be found between freedom and the imposition of what we (possibly collectively) consider the "correct" way to act.

There are rules in the KudoZ system, and there are recommendations (for instance not to close a question before 24 hours have passed). However, recommendations cannot take every conceivable situation into account, and rules are, of course, even more limiting.

That said, I'm sure your suggestion will be taken into consideration. In the meantime, maybe it will also help to encourage people to a) think twice about comments before entering them and b) to enter a reason for their comments (which is strongly recommended for "neutral" and "disagree" anyway, and has the added benefit that it can be subsequently edited).

However, when editing your comments, please take one thing into account: currently, responses to comments cannot be edited. So if you change your comment, you may leave the answerer with a funny feeling if their response suddenly looks out of context. All the more so since edited comments are not identified as such (even the time stamp remains the same), so that readers are not aware of the change.

Endre
EB Communications


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 01:07
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
editing simple agrees Dec 7, 2003

Editing simple agrees meets Ian's suggestion
David Russi wrote:
... the system should allow us to correct the Agree itself, even when no comment was entered, and allow a comment to be added later.


And I still think that a brief waiting period would make it possible for all of us to enter comments from a different perspective.

It also would eliminate the possibility of entering rushed Agree answers in the initial period, when the question is still being studied.

I wonder what percentage of us return to reconsider our response to the first answer.


My answer here is very personal: I seldom consider that I should review an agree. Whenever I see a better answer after I gave an agree to a previous one, I put it in the second comment, for example "you're right, it fits better this context". It doesn't mean that the previous one is wrong, the previous one is just worse, but we know that because there was a better one, otherwise it would be the best, am I clear?

Many people go to the questions as soon as they get the notification or browsing just unclosed questions. Why? because they wish to answer. Those who go to the questions just to give agrees do so because they need BrowniZ, and they are a minority.
When the first ones see that there is already a good answer they give their opinion (agrees or disagrees or comments). I think that if it was compulsory to wait a period for giving agrees people would just participate less. They would notice that there's a good answer, won't have a better one, won't be able to give an agree, and won't come back for that (I think).


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PB Trans

Local time: 06:07
French to English
+ ...
I am in the new design Dec 8, 2003

Claudia Iglesias wrote:

I think that everything you describe might be due to the fact that you seem to be using the old design.

If you're working in the new design, in the upper side of a KudoZ question you can see "Return to KudoZ Standard Design".
If you're in the "Standard" or old design,
you can see "Switch to New KudoZ Design (Beta Version)".


Hola Claudia,

Thank you for your reply but I am in the new design. To confirm, it says "Revert to old design" at the top of the page.

So I still don't know why I can't edit my comments. Maybe I haven't been on ProZ long enough? I know I just recently was able to edit questions (even though I have not earned over 500 KudoZ points). I'm puzzled!


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Pablo Grosschmid  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:07
English to Spanish
+ ...
Waiting time for comments no, but maybe for gradings Dec 8, 2003

I agree that all comments should be editable, i.e., add, modify or delete.
A waiting time before entering comments is not needed.
Maybe a reasonable waiting time before Asker can grade would benefit all, avoiding some rush gradings of poor answers.


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 01:07
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Summarizing Dec 8, 2003

Pina Nunes wrote:
-
m in the new design.
- [...]I still don't know why I can't edit my comments. [/quote]

And we are talking about "comments" not just an "agree" that you want to become neutral, but a "this word means this thing in this context" that you'd like to edit by "this word means this other thing in that context".
You should be able to do it, it doesn't depend on the fact of being Platinum or having 500 KudoZ or not being a "New member" (you haven't that label any more). Send a Support Request
http://www.proz.com/?sp=requests/index


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PB Trans

Local time: 06:07
French to English
+ ...
I can't edit anything Dec 9, 2003

Claudia Iglesias wrote:

And we are talking about "comments" not just an "agree" that you want to become neutral, but a "this word means this thing in this context" that you'd like to edit by "this word means this other thing in that context".
You should be able to do it, it doesn't depend on the fact of being Platinum or having 500 KudoZ or not being a "New member" (you haven't that label any more). Send a Support Request
http://www.proz.com/?sp=requests/index[/quote]

I can't edit anything...not the "agrees/disagrees/neutrals" and not the written comments either. Thanks for the support request info. I will look into it. Sorry for strayimg off the topic. Gracias!

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