Vadim Kadyrov Ukraine Local time: 02:47 Member English to Russian + ...
May 27, 2011
This is a decent way to additionally sort out experienced translators from the rest. It is quite natural to believe that a person who answered 2,000 questions and earned, say, 4,000 points is more experienced in the respective field than a person with the same number of answered questions and only 3,000 points earned.
It seems to me that for the time being the situation is that these two persons will have the same rank in the directory (if we assume that all other factors are the same).
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giuliacordelli Italy Local time: 01:47 German to Italian + ...
I don't know..
May 27, 2011
Obviously, if we're talking about technical answers, the probabilities that the right answer is only ONE, are higher, and then the points are rightly awarded. But, what about those who deal with poetical, literary and so on translations? In most of these cases, there is not only one right answer, but various. So, it's up to the asker to decide which one is better. The asker, even if he/she provides a lot of contest, is the only person who knows which answer is the most appropriate. Sometimes different answers are very similar and they are suggestions. We help each other and, in most cases, we all suggest very similar answers, in order to provide the asker many alternatives. I think about Kudoz as a community, where people shares suggestions to help each other, not as a competition. Then, it's up to the job poster. If he/she wants to consider Kudoz as an important tool to decide to whom he/she may give the job, he/she has the opportunity to do it.
Giulia
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Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 00:47 Member (2007) English + ...
It depends
May 27, 2011
giuliacordelli wrote:
But, what about those who deal with poetical, literary and so on translations? In most of these cases, there is not only one right answer, but various.
...
I think about Kudoz as a community, where people shares suggestions to help each other, not as a competition.
It also depends on the language pair, surely? If there are relatively few answerers, you are more likely to have your answer chosen more often.
Where I work, in the marketing and tourism fields of the French to English pair, there are a great many answers to a lot of questions.
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giuliacordelli Italy Local time: 01:47 German to Italian + ...
Too many factors...
May 27, 2011
I agree with Sheila. When posting a question from Italian to German regarding law or medicine, for example, I see less answers then those given to a tourism, literary, general... And of course, there would only be few persons (I don't exactly know, I suppose) translating from Igbo to English. And the one who's known to be expertise would receive more credit. A propos, I noticed that people who already have a lot of points usually get more agrees, even though their answer is not so appropriate as those given by the newcomers. What about this kind of "hazing"?
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Germaine Canada Local time: 19:47 Member (2005) English to French + ...
My two cents...
May 27, 2011
I think that if your are to "sort out experienced translators from the rest" in Proz by looking at their kudoz stats only (the profile, cv, portfolio, forums, etc. may very well contribute to give you a better image), you should look at the whole picture: the kudoz page from their profile and the answers provided, whether or not such answers got any points. Points are not a guarantee of quality (and neither are bunches of "agree") and there was people to provide tons of answers who proved they had more free time than experience. Moreoever, providing answers is not only a matter of experience, it's also (if not mostly) a matter of timing.
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Kirsten Bodart Germany Local time: 01:47 Member (2011) Dutch to English + ...
agree with giulia
May 28, 2011
giuliacordelli wrote:
I agree with Sheila. When posting a question from Italian to German regarding law or medicine, for example, I see less answers then those given to a tourism, literary, general... And of course, there would only be few persons (I don't exactly know, I suppose) translating from Igbo to English. And the one who's known to be expertise would receive more credit. A propos, I noticed that people who already have a lot of points usually get more agrees, even though their answer is not so appropriate as those given by the newcomers. What about this kind of "hazing"?
I have to agree with that. Exact siences are always right or wrong. The rest is a matter of opinion, and sometimes even the translator's own style.
Being the first in some cases also seems to award you more chance at getting the points. Not always, mind you, but if your answer is very similar, being first is likely to attract more attention.
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writeaway Local time: 01:47 Partial member Dutch to English + ...
Disagree
May 29, 2011
Vadim Kadyrov wrote:
It is quite natural to believe that a person who answered 2,000 questions and earned, say, 4,000 points is more experienced in the respective field than a person with the same number of answered questions and only 3,000 points earned.
Imo: anyone who continuously bombards the Kudoz sites with answers, whether informed or just attempted guesses, will automatically be seen by many Askers, some of whom wouldn't know the correct translation in any case, as an Answerer to be taken seriously and will receive lots of questionable pointZ. This helps account for the anger and dismay (see previous recent forums on Kudoz) felt by quite a few translators regarding current low levels of questions and answers. And it is helping remove credibility from Kudoz points in general. Many people have simply stopped answering. All in all, ratios have become virtually meaningless as indicators of anything.
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I think I've mentioned this idea somewhere in a discussion about KudoZ. So, it must be good
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Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 00:47 Member (2007) English + ...
KudoZ = "give and take"
May 29, 2011
writeaway wrote:
Imo: anyone who continuously bombards the Kudoz sites with answers, ..., will automatically be seen ... as an Answerer to be taken seriously and will receive lots of questionable pointZ. This ... is helping remove credibility from Kudoz points in general. Many people have simply stopped answering. All in all, ratios have become virtually meaningless as indicators of anything.
I particularly agree with your last statement, Writeaway. I'd go as far as to say there is no way to statistically define "good" KudoZ answerers. There are at least 3 major types of answerers who figure high on the leaderboard, with many sub-types:
those who are ultra-competitive, who answer every question possible, even if all they know is what "free dictionary", "google translate" or "wikipedia" can tell them;
those who answer every question where they genuinely feel they can give an informed opinion, in the hope that they will be awarded the points;
those who don't consider the points issue at all, but may either be restricting themselves to areas of specific knowledge or filling spare time indulging their KudoZ hobby (addiction?).
In short, we're never going to find an "equitable" way of running KudoZ so maybe we should all simply settle for giving and taking (and not giving and/or not taking) as we see fit.
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Yaotl Altan Mexico Local time: 18:47 Member English to Spanish + ...
Agree
Jul 8, 2011
Vadim Kadyrov wrote:
This is a decent way to additionally sort out experienced translators from the rest. It is quite natural to believe that a person who answered 2,000 questions and earned, say, 4,000 points is more experienced in the respective field than a person with the same number of answered questions and only 3,000 points earned.
It seems to me that for the time being the situation is that these two persons will have the same rank in the directory (if we assume that all other factors are the same).
Ttranslators should be ranked according the best possible ways:
- total points
- awarded/answered ratio.
I totally support this great idea.
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Andy Watkinson Spain Local time: 01:47 Catalan to English + ...
Asker's competence
Jul 9, 2011
giuliacordelli wrote:
The asker, even if he/she provides a lot of contest, is the only person who knows which answer is the most appropriate.
Giulia
Although this is the Proz philosophy (and I apologise for cheapening the term), it's obviously wrong.
After all, if they knew the "most appropriate" answer, they wouldn't have asked in the first place.
One day they're working on a a text about credit default swaps, the next it's optical alignment of machine trains, the next it's triage methods, then hi-tech, then textiles... come on!.....and when I open the Kudoz page, of 20 questions, 15 are posted by the same Asker because they are up a certain creek and lack the basic tools.
I've been on Proz for 10 years and 80% of the askers are simply clueless.
In my case, I only answer questions from people who I believe are using the system as it was originally designed: as a last resort.
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Katalin Horvath McClure United States Local time: 19:47 Member (2002) English to Hungarian + ...
This is a recurring topic
Jul 9, 2011
Vadim, if you search the KudoZ forum for "acceptance rate", you will see that this was discussed many times before, at great lengths.
Some examples of past threads that are worth to take a look:
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Dave Bindon Greece Local time: 02:47 Member (2010) Greek to English
Disagree
Jul 9, 2011
If we were to use this methodology then the statistics would suggest that I'm more experienced in translating English>Greek than Greek>English. I'm not. My higher acceptance rate for Eng>Greek questions is the result of me only answering when I'm extremely confident (whereas in the opposite direction I'll also offer possible alternative answers and, in such cases, the awarding of points is often down to asker/peer preferences rather than right/wrong translator experience).
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Katerina O. Russian Federation Local time: 03:47 Member (2011) English to Russian + ...
3.3 - If the question is closed and points were awarded can I still answer it?
Once the points are awarded, the question is closed, but even closed you can answer it.
The logic behind that is that we would allow you to give all the help that you can to the asker, even if (s)he already decided (s)he has found the best answer to (her)his question.
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hazmatgerman Germany Local time: 01:47 English to German
with
Jul 11, 2011
writeaway, both for reasoning and conclusion. However, in one point I beg to differ: there is no credibility left that could possibly be removed.
[Edited at 2011-07-11 14:52 GMT]
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