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Forbid non-members from posting KudoZ questions (T)
Thread poster: Sabry Hameed

Sabry Hameed  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 04:54
Member (2004)
English to Arabic
+ ...
May 4, 2004

DEAR ALL,
WE have now some troubles because of some persons who are not logged on to post question in a disrespectable manner. We saw in the last few weeks some questions posted several times under different names and some times the same questions are posted five times or more. Other case, these persons post very easy questions, terms which is existed in even a pocket dictionary. I think it is a wate of our time. We all have other things to do.

Sabry

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2004-05-04 10:36]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2005-02-02 16:32]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:54
English to German
+ ...
Contact a moderator May 4, 2004

Hi Sabry,
Please contact a moderator in the language pair concerned; you will find a link at the bottom of each question.

HTH, Ralf


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Mats Wiman  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 03:54
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...

MODERATOR
Please observe KudoZ Golden Rule No 1: May 4, 2004

Dear sabrygameel,

Please keep in mind that:

Everybody has the explicit permission to answer but NOBODY is obliged to

Observing this simple rule will give everybody peace of mind and offer a possibility to observe and learn.

Mats Wiman


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Deborah Shannon  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:54
Member (2002)
German to English
Or go Platinum? May 4, 2004

sabrygameel wrote:

I think it is a wate of our time. We all have other things to do.

Sabry


Hi Sabry,

Why not think about going Platinum - then you will have the option to receive questions from members only.

All the best, Deborah


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 20:54
German to English
Dealing with YAHOOS May 4, 2004

sabrygameel wrote:

DEAR ALL,
WE have now some troubles because of some persons who are not logged on to post question in a disrespectable manner. We saw in the last few weeks some questions posted several times under different names and some times the same questions are posted five times or more. Other case, these persons post very easy questions, terms which is existed in even a pocket dictionary. I think it is a wate of our time. We all have other things to do.

Sabry

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2004-05-04 10:36]


Dear Sabry,
Your question indicates that you would like to make KudoZ participation a more pleasant experience. Ralf's suggestion of contacting the moderator and Deborah's suggestion of becoming a Platinum member are two good ways to improve your experience. Simply ignoring YAHOOS (members of a race of brutes in Swift's Gulliver's Travels, a boorish, crass, or stupid person) won't help you or anyone else. The vast majority of KudoZ participants are professional translators and enjoy a professional atmosphere. Thank you for letting us know about this problem.
Kim

[Edited at 2004-05-04 13:39]

[Edited at 2004-05-04 13:53]


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GoodWords  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 20:54
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
An off-site service May 5, 2004

ProZ offers other websites the possibility of having a KudoZ box for the convenience of their visitors. So some askers may not even have visited the ProZ site. This is a service that ProZ offers to the general public to help people and generate publicity for the site.

Here are some of the sites.


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Amy Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:54
Italian to English
+ ...
no wonder there's so much abuse of the service... May 5, 2004

I wasn't aware that the Kudoz 'ask a question' box appeared anywhere else until now. Don't get me wrong, it's a great tool that everyone should be able to use, but it's hardly surprising that it is the subject of so much abuse (whole sentences/passages posted for translation etc.) when some (or at least one that I clicked on) external sites in Goodwords' link are advertising the Kudoz box with the wording "Intelligent translations by HUMANS for FREE!".

Surely this c/should be regulated?


[Edited at 2004-05-05 09:25]


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 23:54
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
The rules are the same May 5, 2004

Hello

It's true that people who don't know ProZ can ask, but if you try to ask something in one of those KudoZ boxes you'll see that you'll have to read the same KudoZ rules that you see here. That's why I'm convinced that people who abuse (with texts, whole translations one sentence after another), first don't read the rules and second don't show respect for the Human Translators who are ready for helping more than translating, for free.

The problem of dictionary questions...it all depends, the Moderator of the pair should be able to contact the asker and have an explanation.

Maybe the wording of "Intelligent translations by HUMANS for FREE!" should be changed, this would demand a letter from ProZ Staff to the other site.


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Sam Berner  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 12:54
Member (2003)
English to Arabic
+ ...
Abuse of Kudoz - I understand where Sabri is coming from May 15, 2004

I was online when the event Sabri is talking about occured. I am a Plat, and yet I still kept recieving tens of emails on that night, just like Sabri said. I am a firm believer in assisting and mentoring newer/younger translators, but what started as a single question soon changed into a flood. There were 5 words, all of them very simple, and around 7 askers. Within ten minutes I had 35 emails. For someone whose whole life is online (work, family and socialising) I had an automatic reaction to each email. When the 35th came in I felt spammed and logged off.

I agree with those calling for change in the terms "FREE translations by humans". This is the first time I hear that we are responding to questions posted outside Proz site, and I don't feel good about it for some reason. For me responding to questions like these is about mentoring, not providing FREE services. Life is hard enough, and as for community work, we can each do our Samaritan duties at the local St. Vincent de Paul. Proz is a professional website for professionals, and I see no reason to make it a public charity.


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Sam Berner  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 12:54
Member (2003)
English to Arabic
+ ...
Contacting Askers - in reply to Ms Iglesias May 15, 2004

Claudia Iglesias wrote:

The problem of dictionary questions...it all depends, the Moderator of the pair should be able to contact the asker and have an explanation.


I don't think that would be possible if the questions were coming from other websites, but it is worth investigating. As for reading the Proz rules, Claudia.. well, these people's English was less than rudimentary (they all indicated it was a test of some sort that they were taking) that even hif they had read them, they would not be able to understand them. Should we have the basic rules in other languages?


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 23:54
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Answers and comments May 15, 2004

Hi Sam

The situation that you describe ("There were 5 words, all of them very simple, and around 7 askers. Within ten minutes I had 35 emails...") calls to an immediate reaction and action from moderators. The first moderator who has to be informed is the one of the respective pair, but if he seems not to be online you can contact another one.

This is the first time I hear that we are responding to questions posted outside ProZ.com site, and I don't feel good about it for some reason.

The reason for this service to exist is to make ProZ.com known elsewhere.

I don't think that would be possible if the questions were coming from other websites, but it is worth investigating. As for reading the Proz rules, Claudia.. well, these people's English was less than rudimentary (they all indicated it was a test of some sort that they were taking) that even hif they had read them, they would not be able to understand them. Should we have the basic rules in other languages?


Moderators can contact the askers, even when not logged in. These askers can also be blocked and have their access to the site forbidden, so our members don't have to feel like victims when there is abuse.
The problem of the localized rules (and of the whole site being translated) is a very old one that hasn't found a solution yet.
But be sure that you're not alone wishing that.

I hope this makes you feel better.

Claudia


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Alaa Zeineldine  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 04:54
Member (2002)
English to Arabic
+ ...
On or Around that Time May 17, 2004

On or around that time, I was contacted by a couple of members. There were two situations that I had to deal with. In one case, a translation professor gave several groups in the same class the same assignment in which they were required to use KudoZ. For each term, the successful group was the one who gets the first answer. You can imagine the amount of repetition this has caused; especially, when some members used their quashing rights and the students started reposting the questions.

I had to block the email accounts to prevent further posting. I also sent the students email requesting that their professor contact me so that we can find a way to coordinate the activity. Once the flow was stopped, I spent a good part of the day draining the swamp, I mean squashing the questions. A couple of students sent me email explaining the situation, and I explainedthat we would like to help, but without disrupting our system, so if their professor contacts me and we work a deal, I can reinstate their accounts. Haven't heard from the professor yet.

The other situation is that since that experience, some of those students found that Kudoz is a good short-cut for doing their work and have been using the system too liberaly. In this situation, I try to apply the KudoZ quashing rules and try as much as possible to ignore who the poster is. So I don't quash the question just because the poster is one of those students (all from Kuwait). However, when I see the questions becoming very frivolous or the language overly non-professional, I squash a couple of questions for the same poster in an attempt to influence their behavior.

On the other hand, I do suggest that the members be a little tolerant of the situation. As Mats suggested there is not obligation to answer, and at least the students are honest in marking the questions as homework assignments, so that helps those who prefer to ignore them.

I think there is a dynamic that evolved in parallel where one or two members answer all the frivolous questions taking it as an opportunity to collect points, and maybe some members are frustrated by that situation. My answer to both parties is "don't always think points!" There are some positive aspects to competing for points (I always liked Mat's article "Confession of a point-grabber"), but at the same time, don't let points dominate your thinking.

Hope this sheds more light on the situation.

[Edited at 2004-05-17 16:49]

[Edited at 2004-05-17 16:49]

[Edited at 2004-05-17 16:51]

[Edited at 2004-05-17 16:52]


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nlingua
Local time: 08:24
English to Urdu
+ ...
Communities .... a balancing of needs May 17, 2004

>>Begin Rant

As members of a community, we enjoy certain benefits, so we are responsible for paying the rent, or taxes or whatever. So:

If you 'Go Platinum' you are deemed to have 'paid in full.' So you can filter out the hoi-polloi and play with your fellow aristocrats - and be sure thet they *will* grade your answers so your efforts/KudoZ/Good Karma won't be "wasted".

Otherwise, you "pay the price" by having to perform more "manual labour". This is Capitalism in action. Deal with it.


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Sabry Hameed  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 04:54
Member (2004)
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Here is another example alaa May 17, 2004

http://proz.com/kudoz/715571

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