Suggesting a different kind of ProZ.com membership
Bernhard Sulzer United States Local time: 19:53 English to German + ...
Jan 4
This is just an idea stemming from the fact that I do not (no longer) wish to apply for jobs posted on proz.com because they don't pay what I charge/ I don't consider the rates one can get a fair living wage. Other translators might disagree with my second assessment and they are certainly entitled to it.
I would like to be listed in the directory as a certified pro (which I am/was) but pay less than the regular full membership. I wouldn't mind being given a particular "color band" or something to show that I am not a full member applying for proz.com jobs but (big but) that I am somebody who is just as qualified because of my KudoZ points and certified pro status.
Unfortunately, guest status currently automatically means you are listed behind every other full member (even the many who have 0 KudoZ points) and you lose your certified pro status (until you decide to sign up for full membership again).
But I am willing to be more than a guest and pay for it, but less than for full membership.
I see my paid listing (preferably without access to posted jobs) not only as a service to me but as a big part of what proz.com actually can offer to outsourcers.
I contribute to KudoZ (have, for quite some years) and forums and, yes, I like to have access to the blueboard although I can buy access on an as needed basis with Browniz points and that's really all I need. But I can fairly say that in all my years I have been a guest or member here, I have not been selected for more than one or two jobs posted on proz.com for which I actually applied, and that's already 5 or six years ago. I believe not because I am so bad but because my services were seen as too expensive.
IMO, there should be a specific paid membership option available for translators who like to be listed, fairly, mind you, according to their contributions and obvious skills "earned" here on proz.com (KudoZ, certified pro) but do not want to apply for posted jobs.
I have to admit it's not so much the money per se but the fact that I pay for something I do not want to use.
Currently, one is only listed as a certified pro in the directory if you pay full membership.
As a guest, paying $ 0.00 (my new current and tentative status), I am listed way back in the directory because all certified proz and other full members are listed before me.
However, if you look specifically for non-members, I come in first in a certain category because of my KudoZ points. But that's probably of no help to me unless that category is renamed "translators not applying for jobs listed on proz.com" or "professional translators that are listed only without the option to apply for jobs posted on proz.com" or "certfied proz and non-members". But again, I am willing to pay a lesser fee for being listed according to my skills.
.
Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to simply complain, but I believe my wish has merit and a more differentiated membership system is called for.
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Bernhard
Add-on:
If it is possible to be a partial member (community only) and keep the same position in the directory and the certified pro badge, please, maybe staff can confirm that. I thought otherwise.
[Edited at 2012-01-04 03:35 GMT]
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neilmac Spain Local time: 01:53 Member (2007) Spanish to English + ...
Horses for courses
Jan 4
I suppose it depends why you are on proz in the first place. If seeking work, then your proposal makes sense, although since the aim of the site is to function as a business in itself, I doubt the owners would be interested.
I originally signed up because I like the kudoz question function, for brainstorming as well as helping out, and because it seemed the right thing to do, like buying a PC did 20 years ago. However, only a few of the jobs/contacts that have come my way via proz have been worthwhile or pleasant, and I find most of the agencies posting jobs or otherwise recruiting are generally too demanding and inflexible, so can rarely be bothered replying to them nowadays.
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Claire Cox United Kingdom Local time: 00:53 Member (2006) German to English + ...
But...
Jan 4
I don't bother with the jobs bidding service as such but I'm quite happy to pay for full ProZ membership because of the hidden benefits. The fact that you pay puts your profile above non-paying members as you so rightly say and therefore means that your details come up above others when clients do searches. As a result, I would say that about 50% of my clients have contacted me DIRECTLY after finding me on a ProZ search and have gone on to become regular clients, paying good rates. That's worth its weight in gold to my mind! I don't see why anyone should pay less to have this same benefit....
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Daniela Zambrini Italy Local time: 01:53 Member (2005) English to Italian + ...
MODERATOR
full and partial membership options
Jan 4
Hello Bernhard,
actually, a partial membership option already exists.
For users who are interested in accessing the member-only functions of only select areas of the site, two "partial" memberships are available at reduced costs:
Jobs Partial Membership and Community Partial Membership.
More information about the benefits included in these two membership types is available here
On the other hand, one of the requirements for the Certified Pro Network is being a full member.
Ciao
Daniela
[Edited at 2012-01-04 08:39 GMT]
[Edited at 2012-01-04 08:42 GMT]
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Cetacea Switzerland Local time: 01:53 English to German + ...
I don't quite get it...
Jan 4
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
As a guest, paying $ 0.00 (my new current and tentative status), I am listed way back in the directory because all certified proz and other full members are listed before me.
If you're not looking for jobs/clients on ProZ, why does it matter how far back you are listed? Actually, that is one of the reasons why I decided to drop my paid membership: Both the jobs offered on the site and the jobs offered by clients contacting me directly through the site were considerably below my standard rates, so why remain a paying member? I can still contribute to the community, even access the BlueBoard.
[Edited at 2012-01-04 10:41 GMT]
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Diana Coada United Kingdom Local time: 00:53 Member (2010) English to Romanian + ...
I do not get it then!
Jan 4
''On the other hand, one of the requirements for the Certified Pro Network is being a full member.''
I pay partial membership!
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Bin Tiede Germany Local time: 01:53 Member (2008) German to Chinese + ...
How I interpret Berhard's post
Jan 4
Cetacea wrote:
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
As a guest, paying $ 0.00 (my new current and tentative status), I am listed way back in the directory because all certified proz and other full members are listed before me.
If you're not looking for jobs/clients on ProZ, why does it matter how far back you are listed?
On the one hand, he is frustrated with Proz.com, a nourishing bed for low-rates agencies, crammed with “cheap translators”; on the other hand, he still secretly hopes that the site stuff will do something against it…
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Daniela Zambrini Italy Local time: 01:53 Member (2005) English to Italian + ...
MODERATOR
my apologies
Jan 4
Diana Coada wrote:
''On the other hand, one of the requirements for the Certified Pro Network is being a full member.''
I pay partial membership!
I was under the impression the CPN required full membership.
Ciao,
D
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Diana Coada United Kingdom Local time: 00:53 Member (2010) English to Romanian + ...
No apologies needed!
Jan 4
Daniela Zambrini wrote:
Diana Coada wrote:
''On the other hand, one of the requirements for the Certified Pro Network is being a full member.''
I pay partial membership!
I was under the impression the CPN required full membership.
D
But maybe members should be made aware of all the options available to them. I am a bit confused now as well!
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In reply to Bernhard's suggestion, please note that the Directory of freelance translators and interpreters is in fact the main source of jobs at ProZ.com. This is why language professionals are ranked based on membership status first and then by the number of KudoZ PRO points in a given language pair and area of expertise.
But having more visibility in the directory is not the only benefit ProZ.com full professional membership offers. Among other benefits, and as Bernhard and Cetacea note, full professional membership gives members full and unrestricted access to the Blue Board record, an excellent tool to assess business risks. It also gives members the chance to have their own hosting account for free, full access to the Invoicing tool, profile visitor tracking, and more... For a full list of benefits, simply visit http://www.proz.com/membership/
Finally, regarding ProZ.com membership and the Certified PRO Network, note that, though partial members are accepted into the network, full professional membership is required to remain a Certified PRO. As explained at http://www.proz.com/faq/5114#5114 , partial members accepted into the network will eventually be asked to upgrade to full professional membership. This condition is also clarified at http://www.proz.com/pro-tag/info/about (at the bottom of the page).
Hope this explains.
Kind regards,
Lucia
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Bernhard Sulzer United States Local time: 19:53 English to German + ...
TOPIC STARTER
why not a special rate?
Jan 4
Lucia Leszinsky wrote:
... Finally, regarding ProZ.com membership and the Certified PRO Network, note that, though partial members are accepted into the network, full professional membership is required to remain a Certified PRO. As explained at http://www.proz.com/faq/5114#5114 , partial members accepted into the network will eventually be asked to upgrade to full professional membership. This condition is also clarified at http://www.proz.com/pro-tag/info/about (at the bottom of the page).
Hope this explains.
Kind regards,
Lucia
Hello Lucia,
Thanks for your post. One of the reasons I kept my membership was to use my top ranking as a marketing tool to attract better paying customers. I wouldn't mind paying for it, but why can't I pay less than the full membership rate for that top-ranking when I want to give up one of the main features here on proz.com, namely, the option to apply for posted jobs?
Here is the reasoning behind the Certified PRO Network, and I believe it has nothing to do with the option to apply for posted jobs:
http://www.proz.com/pro-tag/info/about
"What is the ProZ.com Certified PRO Network?
The ProZ.com Certified PRO Network is an initiative of the ProZ.com community, the purpose of which is to identify qualified translators in various language pairs, and provide them with the option of networking and collaborating in an environment consisting entirely of screened professionals."
Bernhard
[Edited at 2012-01-04 16:59 GMT]
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Bernhard Sulzer United States Local time: 19:53 English to German + ...
TOPIC STARTER
paying for marketing tools is okay with me
Jan 4
Cetacea wrote:
If you're not looking for jobs/clients on ProZ, why does it matter how far back you are listed? Actually, that is one of the reasons why I decided to drop my paid membership: Both the jobs offered on the site and the jobs offered by clients contacting me directly through the site were considerably below my standard rates, so why remain a paying member? I can still contribute to the community, even access the BlueBoard.
[Edited at 2012-01-04 10:41 GMT]
Hi Cetacea!
I would be interested in getting jobs through proz.com (clients contacting me based on my directory listing), just not by applying for the posted jobs.
I am not sure how many good paying job offers I can receive by being listed prominently in the translator directory, but I don't mind paying for it. I see it as part of my marketing expenses. But why can't I pay less than full membership to keep my top ranking - if I want to waive my option to apply for the posted jobs? My professional qualifications are still intact.
Happy New Year!
Bernhard
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For a better position in the directory, try the jobs partial membership
Jan 4
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Lucia Leszinsky wrote:
... Finally, regarding ProZ.com membership and the Certified PRO Network, note that, though partial members are accepted into the network, full professional membership is required to remain a Certified PRO. As explained at http://www.proz.com/faq/5114#5114 , partial members accepted into the network will eventually be asked to upgrade to full professional membership. This condition is also clarified at http://www.proz.com/pro-tag/info/about (at the bottom of the page).
Hope this explains.
Kind regards,
Lucia
Hello Lucia,
Thanks for your post. One of the reasons I kept my membership was to use my top ranking as a marketing tool to attract better paying customers. I wouldn't mind paying for it, but why can't I pay less than the full membership rate for that top-ranking when I want to give up one of the main features here on proz.com, namely, the option to apply for posted jobs?
Here is the reasoning behind the Certified PRO Network, and I believe it has nothing to do with the option to apply for posted jobs:
http://www.proz.com/pro-tag/info/about
"What is the ProZ.com Certified PRO Network?
The ProZ.com Certified PRO Network is an initiative of the ProZ.com community, the purpose of which is to identify qualified translators in various language pairs, and provide them with the option of networking and collaborating in an environment consisting entirely of screened professionals."
Bernhard
[Edited at 2012-01-04 16:59 GMT]
You will understand, Bernhard, that ProZ.com cannot offer individual membership types for each site service. To distinguish between community and job related activities, the "jobs partial membership" and the "community partial membership" were introduced, http://www.proz.com/membership?sp_submode=partial_membership
The Certified PRO Network requires full professional membership precisely because 1) the network groups professional service providers, 2) because of the community aspect of the network and 3) because members of the Certified PRO Network have another source of jobs by simply networking within a group of screened professionals.
If you are only interested in improving your position in the directory, I recommend you try the jobs partial membership then.
Regards,
Lucia
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Bernhard Sulzer United States Local time: 19:53 English to German + ...
TOPIC STARTER
special rate warranted IMO
Jan 4
Lucia Leszinsky wrote:
... You will understand, Bernhard, that ProZ.com cannot offer individual membership types for each site service. To distinguish between community and job related activities, the "jobs partial membership" and the "community partial membership" were introduced, http://www.proz.com/membership?sp_submode=partial_membership
The Certified PRO Network requires full professional membership precisely because 1) the network groups professional service providers, 2) because of the community aspect of the network and 3) because members of the Certified PRO Network have another source of jobs by simply networking within a group of screened professionals.
If you are only interested in improving your position in the directory, I recommend you try the jobs partial membership then.
Regards,
Lucia
Thank you for your input, Lucia.
But why not? Why can't Proz.com offer a greater variety (I would call it) of membership types?
The bidding option is something I believe is calculated into the price for membership. I am certain that many professional proz.com members are not interested in using it. Why should we pay for it?
Or, put another way: a greater variety of membership types might attract additional translators or keep them as paying members.
As far as the partial membership options are concerned that you mention, none of those includes the certified pro status and therefore you cannot receive top ranking, correct?
Why can't there be a special membership type (without the bidding option) - I would still be paying for the opportunity to be listed but it should be less if I don't want to bid on posted jobs. I would understand it if the reasons you list above are reasons why the Certfied PRO Network requires membership, but why full membership?
A discounted membership rate is, in my opinion, warranted. The bidding option comes at a price, and it should, in my opinion, be optional. If I don't use it, I should not be charged for it.
Bernhard
[Edited at 2012-01-04 18:18 GMT]
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