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Proz' search engine placement should be higher
Thread poster: Margaret Hander

Margaret Hander  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:55
Spanish to English
+ ...
Jan 15, 2005

I find it strange that with our combine professional and monetary power that the Proz.com website doesn't place higher on Yahoo, for example, when a user does a simple search like "translators" or "translation." I believe we should be directing more of our combined resources toward coming up more quickly in Internet searches. I was disappointed to see [...another translation site...] come up way before us (I belong to that too, but love Proz much more). Please tell me if you think this is important or not.

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Sven Petersson  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:55
English to Swedish
+ ...
I think it’s the hottest subject ever raised on the ProZ Forum. Jan 16, 2005

Yes, it would be most desirable to improve the ProZ placement, and the placement of individual translators’ ProZ pages.

Achieving this does not call for any "professional and monetary power", but for one single day’s attention of a competent programmer AND the cooperation between ProZ members. The two problems are that it is impossible to get the attention of Jason (programmer at ProZ) and seemingly impossible to make ProZ members accept the Nash solution (Nash, John F., winner of the 1994 Nobel prize).

Solve those two problems and we will all live happier, and earn more money with less effort.

Sven.


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Vladimir Stepanov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 07:55
English to Russian
+ ...
Yep. Came as a surprise for me too. Jan 16, 2005

Margaret Hander wrote:

I find it strange that with our combine professional and monetary power that the Proz.com website doesn't place higher on Yahoo, for example.


I was surfing the web the other day and was puzzled by ProZ position somewhere on the 3rd or even 4th page of search results (with the key words being "translators directory"!!!).

What was so special about John Nash's solution?
Why is it so difficult to get ProZ members cooperate on such an important task?

[Edited at 2005-01-16 00:33]


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Margaret Hander  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:55
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Lets see if we can post specific, positive solutions Jan 16, 2005

Thank you to all the people who have already--in only three hours or so-- posted or emailed responses to my posting. I suppose it is valuable to voice our opinions.

I'm writing again now to encourage anyone who cares about this issue and knows of specific ways that we as a community can improve this or else put encouraging pressure on our leaders to improve this to specify these ideas in their messages.

Perhaps if multiple people posted multiple, specific, constructive suggestions, one would be taken up. For example, if the programer is too busy there seem to also be monetary solutions that wouldnt be out of reach of such a large group as we are.

Proz is such a useful tool and I am only writing about this because I care.


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 07:55
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Easy to achieve Jan 16, 2005

Hi Margaret,
Google places sites according to their popularity in the net. A site A which has many other sites pointing to A with a link are thought to be more popular and important than a Site B which has only a few links pointing to itself.
So if every member would put a link to Proz.com onto their (his/her) web-page Proz would rise in Google-ranking.
Personally I would not do it. When someone has found my site why should I help him/her to find another translator? Counterproductive, what do you think?
By the way, I even appear first in google when searching for:
"übersetzungsdienst deutsch finnisch". And my page at Truu's comes up on page 3 when searching for "übersetzer deutsch finnisch". I really do not want to leave people from my site and go to Proz.com to search for my competitors.
So think twice about it. The other directory of translators you mentioned in the first posting ( will not repeat it, because I had postings removed by moderators when I mentioned this site) is better than P..z.com in jobs related matters (to my experience their job-postings are of higher quality, though rarer). But their forum his very dull, mostly two guys accusing each other of stupidity.


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Margaret Hander  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:55
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Good point...but... Jan 16, 2005

That is a good point about not wanting to lead customers to other translators.

I was thinking about that point before posting, but came to the conclusion that it seems to take such a large effort and investment for an individual translator like myslef to come to the top of a search engine that it would be probably better to try to rise as a group, mainly so that we would get more job postings--we have lots but could use more.

Plus, I figure that, in any case, a customer is going to be able to find lots of options on his own, and the best that I can do is 1) make sure that I am one of the options on the plate, 2) hone my own personal skills in selling myself so that I get chosen. Having Proz higher on the search engine would help me accomplish point one. I also work on my own website, networking, etc., at the same time, of course.

Oh, and a final point is that in a country like the U.S. where the translating profession is relatively badly understood by the general public, belonging to a well known website is already a mini credential in itself.


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Sven Petersson  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:55
English to Swedish
+ ...
Dear Margaret and Heinrich, Jan 16, 2005

Dear Margaret and Heinrich,

Your postings do unfortunately prove my point about ProZ members’ unwillingness to accept (or inability to understand) the Nash solution. Why don’t you read the Nash thesis, implement the solution and double your income over the remainder of your life? Or if that’s too hard, why don’t you at least see the movie. It contains a hilarious example of the Nash solution that will both entertain and educate.

Happy reading/watching!

Sven.


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John Jory  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:55
Member (2004)
English to German
+ ...
The answer is simple: more links Jan 16, 2005

The Google search algorithm (also) rates the number of referring links that are found on other sites, as a measure of popularity.

IMO, Heinrich's worries are absolutely unfounded. If someone finds their way to his site, they presumably do so because of other search criteria.
What's more, he does not have to place the link on the Welcome page or in any other prominent location. The main this is that it's there somewhere (hidden in the remotest corner, if necessary).

I do not have an own site (yet), but if I did, I would be happy to announce that I am a member of Proz, with a corresponding link.

I sing in a local vocal group, and in the course of time, we have placed links in all kinds of regional and international sites that provide the possibility to do so. Result, anyone googling for vocal groups in our region finds us pretty high up the list.

The last sentence has given me an idea: I'll set a link to Proz on our page (every link helps!).

[Edited at 2005-01-16 21:11]


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Margaret Hander  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:55
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
I am going to put a link to my own Proz profile on my website Jan 16, 2005

but I also think that there are other more rapid ways (programing, promotional budget) that Proz could be promoting its position, like the good man from Sweden mentioned.

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Mats Wiman  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:55
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...

MODERATOR
I sincerely agree with Sven Petersson Jan 16, 2005

Please study John Nash at http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/nash.htm

We should aim higher than where we are now.

Mats J C Wiman
Übersetzer/Translator/Traducteur/Traductor > swe
http://www.MatsWiman.com
http://www.Deutsch-Schwedisch.com
http://www.proz.com/pro/1749
(Proz.com moderator, deu>swe, Swedish)
Träsk 201
SE-872 97 Skog
Schweden/Sweden/Suède/Suecia
Tel:+46-612-54112 Fax:+46-612-54181 Mobile:+46-70-5769797


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Elizabeth Adams  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:55
Member (2002)
Russian to English
+ ...
I couldn't agree more Jan 16, 2005

Hello Margaret and all,

Only one of my big clients has found me via Proz.

Most of them find me by word of mouth or the ata website.

What about all the other great clients? I've done the googling, and I do feel that Proz has much more to offer in terms of 1) translators, 2) client education, and 3) other professional resources than any of the other places that come up in a search. So we'd be doing ourselves and those who are looking to hire us a favor by increasing Proz's profile in search results.

Elizabeth


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Sven Petersson  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:55
English to Swedish
+ ...
Nash reference Jan 16, 2005

http://www.scs.carleton.ca/~maheshwa/MAW/MAW/node7.html

(The title of the movie is "A Beautiful Mind".)

I have led you to the water. The decision to drink or to die from dehydration is yours, and yours alone.

Sven.

[Edited at 2005-01-17 00:00]


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Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 06:55
Member (2003)
German to Dutch
+ ...
I'm afraid to go mad too... Jan 17, 2005

Sven Petersson wrote:

http://www.scs.carleton.ca/~maheshwa/MAW/MAW/node7.html

(The title of the movie is "A Beautiful Mind".)

I have led you to the water. The decision to drink or to die from dehydration is yours, and yours alone.

Sven.

[Edited at 2005-01-17 00:00]


Hi Sven,

I had to give up after 3 paragraphs. Don't you have link to a Nash for Dummies page? Or maybe you could summarize Nash's theory.

Still thirsty,
Gerard


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Sven Petersson  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:55
English to Swedish
+ ...
Nash for Dummies Jan 17, 2005

Adam Smith's classic economic theory says that markets are efficient because buyers and sellers have equal access to information and eventually agree upon a price when both consider the transaction as making them better off. This is Smith's famous "Invisible Hand" theory.

Nash's thesis proves beyond any doubt that the classic economic theory is bull.

(It also shows how the enlightened can gain advantages)

[Edited at 2005-01-17 15:23]


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Margaret Hander  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:55
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
funny-but could you be less subtle Jan 17, 2005

I have a strong feeling that I am going to appreciate your sense of humor once I get the joke, but... ...since I actually have a couple of other things on the to-do list that come ahead of researching this reference of which I have no knowledge, but with which you are tantalizing me, would you be a dear and just say directly how the Nash theme relates to this topic?
Cheers.


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