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Do we really want to see ”edited by staff or moderator”?
Thread poster: Sven Petersson

Sven Petersson  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 13:18
English to Swedish
+ ...
Oct 24, 2005

Is it not time that those who indulge in editing other members' opinions and/or style on the forum stop hiding behind the “edited by staff or moderator”?

Would not “edited by [Name], member no. [ProZ.com membership number]” be preferable?

Do we need this kind of editing at all?

Sven.


[Edited at 2005-10-24 22:18]


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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 13:18
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
Just a brief clarification Oct 24, 2005

Sven Petersson wrote:

/.../ those who indulge in editing other member�s opinions and/or style on the forum stop hiding behind the �edited by staff or moderator�?
/../


There is no such thing as "editing member's opinions and/or style" on proz.com fora - only the poster is able to edit *the content* of the post. Staff and moderators, however, can edit *titles* of forum posts - and indeed they frequently do so replacing titles which do not describe the content adequately by titles which are more meaningful. Such editing is usually done by the moderator of a given forum.

Best,
Magda


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Jana Teteris  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:18
Latvian to English
+ ...
More beneficial, than a hindrance (IMHO) Oct 24, 2005

I think it is actually beneficial if moderators edit the titles of posts which are ambiguous or too broad (eg. "I need help" to "I need help with xxxxxx"). It not only saves time for those reading the forums, but may also help those people whose working language is not English.

Other than that I haven't really come across moderators editing actual posts made by members - unless of course you're referring to posts that are frozen or deleted when they break the rules. And personally, I don't have a problem with that.

[Edited at 2005-10-24 22:33]


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Maria Karra  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:18
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
hiding? Oct 24, 2005

Sven Petersson wrote:
Is it not time that those who indulge in editing other members' opinions and/or style on the forum stop hiding behind the “edited by staff or moderator”?


Hi Sven.
Forum moderators don't edit the main body of forum posts, just the titles, and they're not hiding behind anything. I don't know why you believe that. When we edit forum titles we do it to make them more descriptive. We don't change members' opinions or style.


Do we need this kind of editing at all?

Absolutely. If you only knew how many times I've had to change a title in Translator Resources from "Help!" to "Looking for information on...".


[Edited at 2005-10-24 22:33]


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Andrea Appel
Canada
Local time: 07:18
English to German
+ ...
I am in favor of this free feature Oct 25, 2005

Editing hm costs between 0.04 to 0.08 cents per word in the average. Editing my posts (which only happend to me if I made a spelling mistake) is a free gift from ProZ.com. Oh I forgot; once I made a not so nice comment and ProZ.com edited it for me, because it is against the rules. After you feel that the heatwave is gone you would feel that it was unprofessional and bad for business anyway. So thanks for editing (-;

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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 09:18
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
The "who" and the "why" Oct 25, 2005

Every time I hid a posting or edit a title I send a mail to the poster explaining the reasons behind such action.
I think most moderators do so.
Regards,
Enrique Cavalitto


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Peter Bouillon  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:18
Member (2005)
French to German
+ ...
yes Oct 25, 2005

Sven Petersson wrote:
Would not “edited by [Name], member no. [ProZ.com membership number]” be preferable?


Yes, although I don't see the merit of giving the membership number. I'd rather suggest something along the lines of, "edited by [Name], moderator", where [Name] is a clickable link.

P.

[Edited at 2005-10-25 09:29]


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 09:18
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Another suggestion Oct 25, 2005

If the poster knows who edited his title, there's no reason for the others to know. The explanation is just thought not to embarrass the poster with something he didn't write.

But I suggest to have something like:
Edited by staff or moderator.
Previous title:
New title:


This would help everybody to understand how it works and why we do it. I have no reason to hide the name of the editor, but this could lead to personal remarks and all the moderators are asked to edit in order to clarify the titles. And the name of the editor is known to the other mods.

Claudia



[Edited at 2005-10-25 10:56]


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Still too much info Oct 25, 2005

Peter Bouillon wrote:
I'd rather suggest something along the lines of, "edited by [Name], moderator", where [Name] is a clickable link.

I appreciate the editing of misleading or uninformative titles, but instead of the current provisional solution I would prefer a small clickable icon aside of the title, for those who are really interested in this info and who might want to discuss the changes with the respective moderator.


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Ă–zden Arıkan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:18
Member
English to Turkish
Title edited Oct 25, 2005

It seems too many people believe that moderators are capable of editing the text body of a message, although it is technically impossible. Therefore, at least the message that appears at the bottom of the page upon editing should be changed to "Title edited by staff or moderator." Thus, insinuations such as "editing opinions and style" could be avoided - and I find that -together with the remark "hiding behind"- too strong to be uttered without substantiation.

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elzosim  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:18
English to Greek
+ ...
Totally agree Oct 25, 2005

Xola wrote:

It seems too many people believe that moderators are capable of editing the text body of a message, although it is technically impossible. Therefore, at least the message that appears at the bottom of the page upon editing should be changed to "Title edited by staff or moderator." Thus, insinuations such as "editing opinions and style" could be avoided - and I find that -together with the remark "hiding behind"- too strong to be uttered without substantiation.



I could not have agreed more.

Eleftheria


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xxxTatiana Nero  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:18
Russian
+ ...
is it relevant? Oct 25, 2005

I apologize to put the question so bluntly, but is it at all relevant if free speech is edited on a proprietary website (which we all know ProZ is)? It is the owner's and staff's right to edit whatever they like, and we are to play by their rules here, if we like it or not and whatever our opinion is about it.

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Michele Johnson  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:18
German to English
+ ...
Yes, it is relevant! Oct 25, 2005

Tatiana Neroni wrote:

I apologize to put the question so bluntly, but is it at all relevant if free speech is edited on a proprietary website (which we all know ProZ is)? It is the owner's and staff's right to edit whatever they like, and we are to play by their rules here, if we like it or not and whatever our opinion is about it.


Hate to play devil's advocate, but yes, I in fact do think it's relevant. Yes, the site is proprietary, and of course, staff can do whatever they want, but I am in fact paying the piper so to speak (along with other Platinum members), so I think Sven's question is quite valid.

Regardless, I don't really see this as a free-speech issue. Fine, moderators occasionally modify titles/headers; I have no problem with this. Sven is simply calling for more transparency; who could really be against this?



[Edited at 2005-10-25 17:32]


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 09:18
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
What does the name change? Oct 25, 2005

I don't understand what does the name of the editor change.
What more transparency do you need if it's clearly written that the post was edited? What are you going to do to the editor if he's just applying the forum rules?

Don't you think that it would be more useful to see that the title has been edited and maybe the content of the title?
What to do when the title is offensive, as it was recently the case?
There was a complaint from a member because of an offensive title, if you had been able to see "This post was edited by Claudia Iglesias" would you have contacted me in order to ask what was the previous title and why I had edited it?
And I would have to answer to many messages of that kind?

Come on!

I agree with Xola, some remarks are really strong and show that there's absolutely no trust.

Claudia


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Turning into a debate on principles.. Oct 25, 2005

Michele Johnson wrote:
Hate to play devil's advocate,..

Not very polite about the asker..
.. but I am in fact paying the piper so to speak ..

Me too, I thought about this argument (which Tatiana will probably understand), but I think this is still not the point.

The point is rather the lack of trust mentioned by Xola and Claudia. The problem is, that this is as well implicated in Tatianas fatalistic point of view.

Concerning the transparency, it should suffice if all of the moderators proceeded like Enrique. Even when there is nothing to discuss, there may still be something to learn.

[Edited at 2005-10-25 18:51]


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