"Platinum" Clients [Mod: How to raise market standards]

Levan Namoradze wrote:
And can someone explain me, why an Indian agency may get let's say English into Georgian translation from all over the world? Please note that further such agency use to apply back to us, the native Georgians, however, with their lower (even ridiculous) rates.

Tsogt Gombosuren wrote:


I receive such offers too often and when I offer my rate (pretty reasonable I think), they disappear.

[Edited at 2005-12-28 05:23]

[Edited at 2005-12-28 05:24]

Marcela García Henríquez wrote:

I would rather support a minimum rate than eliminate job postings, because I would like to get clients through Proz.com.

Marcela García Henríquez wrote:

I would rather support a minimum rate than eliminate job postings, because I would like to get clients through Proz.com. With a minimum rate everyone would be able to bid knowing what the lowest rate is and people would not complain about the very low rates.

A free market does no exclude that certain guidelines can be established... things do not need to be that radical. If it is so free that it has no limits at all, we could be all selling our own children through the Internet all in the name of freedom.

There is no freedom without a frame of limits and responsibility. Maybe the key is flexibility.

With a minimum rate everyone would be able to bid knowing what the lowest rate is

...and people would not complain about the very low rates.

Cristóbal del Río Faura wrote:

It’s just a vague idea. I mean, setting up a separate section for "cheap jobs" where outsourcers could post job offers below a certain rate. Above that rate job offers would go to the “standard jobs” section. The crossover rate would be voted by members.

This of course would not prevent low rate jobs from being posted at Proz. However, people using the “cheap jobs” section would somewhat have the (negative) feeling that they are operating in a kind of substandard market. That negative feeling could be reinforced by statements encouraging people to use the standard jobs section and offer and/or be prepared to pay higher rates, and explaining why low rates are detrimental for the general profession.

Regards,
Cr

Ralf Lemster wrote:
But who says what a "very low" rate is? What might be acceptable, or even attractive for you might be rock bottom for someone else.

Ralf Lemster wrote:
Running an independent business, I would strongly object to anyone taking away my right to define the terms at which I'm prepared to do business.

So you don't believe in raising standards.

It is better to have a poor system than trying to enhance it only because it is impossible to please everyone.

We don't define terms, clients do (this is the same for any business).

Of course, it depends on your target audience the terms you can aim at. But we can use strategy to improve our terms, and even our audience. This should be better for everybody (including low raters).

We are not trying to harm anybody, we are trying to raise standards.

Ralf Lemster wrote:
Fred,
With all due respect, I would like to ask you not to misrepresent what I said.

Ralf Lemster wrote:
But who says what a "very low" rate is? What might be acceptable, or even attractive for you might be rock bottom for someone else.

Fred Neild wrote:
So you don't believe in raising standards.

Ralf Lemster wrote:
Would you please substantiate which part of my statement would permit you to interpret what I said in this way?

Ralf Lemster wrote:
Can you imagine a team of volunteers working to help freelancers around the world, helping to ensure a minimum standard of information, and trying to keep educating those who may not be aware of what they should take into account when running a business (which is what freelancers do)? Would you accuse that team in the way you just attacked me?

Ralf Lemster wrote:
Running an independent business, I would strongly object to anyone taking away my right to define the terms at which I'm prepared to do business.

Fred Neild wrote:
We don't define terms, clients do (this is the same for any business).

Ralf Lemster wrote:
Not at all. A client asks me for a quote (and may or may not suggest a price), and I will submit an offer, based on the terms at which I'm willing to take the job. Of course this means that I will not get every job offered - but that's part of the game, isn't it?

Fair enough and I am sorry if I have done this. Must be my years at law school. : )

What I mean is that maybe we are not suggesting a perfect system, but it is manifest that a large group of Prozians are not happy with the lack of differentiation concerning job postings and something should be done to change this.

I admire your patience and your efforts, but I believe it is naive believing this is enough.

Maybe you could even plan an internal marketing campaign at Proz.com, that would be great and I would be eager to help. I am sure Henry could provide you a space at the homepage for this campaign since many low raters don't read forum postings.

But, like I have said before, I believe beginners could still charge low rates, but we shouldn't be posting along with them. I am sure even agencies would appreciate if the community was subdivided between low raters (beginners, etc) and professional or full time or established translators.

Ralf Lemster wrote:
Running an independent business, I would strongly object to anyone taking away my right to define the terms at which I'm prepared to do business.

I disagree. Before establishing your terms I am sure you have studied your target audience. IMO clients/audiences establish terms.

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Hi again,

Apology gladly accepted - for a moment, I felt being cross-examined...


We would need to find out whether this holds true for a significant proportion of Platinum members. It is interesting to contrast the recurring discussions about a perceived erosion of rates with the response to recent polls: for example, only 0.7% (of 569 respondents) stated that using ProZ.com had decreased their income (with 46.6% saying it was unaffected, and 52.7% that it had gone up). I will ask Henry whether he can provide more (and more statistically sound) information.

I ve already suggested a poll about it. I don t think, that there exists such thing as an absolutely free market. Some open economies are very protectionist. Just an opnion, oK?



True, which is why I don't believe it is.
But I also think that ProZ.com cannot run a freelancer's business on his/her behalf. One of the major shortcomings we need to address (and are addressing) is the lack of business attitude that I see whenever someone asks the forum what to charge, whereby it is evidently clear that the person has no idea regarding his/her costs and target returns (yet runs a business nevertheless). What are your suggestions to tackling this (other than writing articles, and communicating on a 1-2-1 basis)?


Marketing exactly what?


Assuming such a split jobs area existed, do you really believe only "beginners" would use it? Having seen how experienced freelancers undersell themselves, I don't think so.





I feel we have a semantic difference here. Of course there is a relationship between my (target) client base and the prices I can charge. (In other words, if you don't achieve your target prices, this may be because you're chasing the wrong clients...) Note that a lower price per unit (word, line, ...) doesn't necessarily mean a lower income over time (hour, day,...).

But I define the terms at which I am prepared to take on a specific job.

Best regards,
Ralf