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Limit for KudoZ questions per day - urgent matter
Thread poster: Adriana Caraccio Morgan, Dip Trans IOL

Adriana Caraccio Morgan, Dip Trans IOL  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 12:33
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Aug 3, 2002

Hello,



I know I\'m not suggesting anything new here, but I think it is absolutely urgent to have some kind of limit in the KudoZ area...



Maybe it could even have different limits depending on the membership (e.g., free members could post 5 KudoZ questions/day, for example, Platinum members 10, so on...).



I\'m sorry, but I think a PROFESSIONAL translator has other means to solve his/her questions, and the quantity of questions usually shows that the asker knows nothing about the subject being translated. I\'m happy to help whenever I can, but I don\'t help people that don\'t have the slightest idea of the area they are translating. Why should I? I only take jobs within the areas I know.



I think if ProZ really wants to maintain its status as a very helpful tool for PROFESSIONAL translators, something needs to be done. It really annoys me that usually those people are not paying for the site, they are not providing any details about themselves... So, I would say that some translators just enjoy working for free and don\'t mind losing jobs. Yes, because those askers are probably getting the jobs we are not, offering a very low price. They should think, \"Everybody else will be working for me, for free! I get some of the best specialists in the area, for free!!! Even if I make 1 cent per word - it will be fine... And I don\'t have to identify myself! Great! I love ProZ!\"



I really hope something can be done soon.



Thanks,



Adriana

Brazil

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-08-03 03:56 ]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:33
English to German
+ ...
I strongly disagree Aug 3, 2002

You\'re quite right in saying that this is not a new discussion - but I\'m afraid the arguments in favour of restrictions are not improving either.



Most of the alleged \"abuses\" we have seen (and dealt with) in DE>EN (as well as EN>DE)did not have any similarity to the background you\'re describing - in fact, we found out that most of the larger strings of questions were related to either a large project being finished off, or the fact that the member concerned used a slow and/or expensive web connection.



This thread is a case in point:

www.proz.com/?sp=bb/viewtopic&eid_c=20821&post=22292#22292

It even starts in a similar way (\"This topic might have come up before...\").



The basis of the KudoZ functionality are the \"KudoZ rules of etiquette\", as set out by ProZ staff.



Remember that, whilst any valuable contribution is most welcome, nobody forces you to answer. If you think you\'re getting too many e-mail notifications, you can always adjust your e-mail settings.



If you believe that someone is abusing the site (remember: asking for individual terms does not constitute abuse - trying to get a string of whole sentences translated for free does), contact the moderator(s) for the pair concerned.





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Adriana Caraccio Morgan, Dip Trans IOL  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 12:33
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I know I'm not obliged to answer, but... Aug 3, 2002

Hi,



Thanks for taking the time to write. I appreciate your comments.



I know I\'m not obliged to answer and that I can even choose not to receive the KudoZ messages. But then, why a paying member like myself should be refrained from using the site in all its possibilities just because some freeloaders think this site is a replacement for dictionaries (even the most basic ones), research, or even the professional attitude of just accepting work that you\'re entitled to do? I think this site should help to protect the translation business. Otherwise, why should people keep on paying? To maintain a site that helps others to undermine our profession, the one that pays my bills and that I intend to keep on doing until I retire?



For the motives you mentioned in your post for the \"lots of messages in a row\" case, ie, slow connection and large projects, then it\'s simple. The limit of x questions per day could be enforced for free members only. The paying members could post as many questions as they want, provided they are fully identified (the askers, I mean). I repeat the paying members should have more privileges. It would be even better for the site, as I understand ProZ generates a lot of work for those who are involved, and I do appreciate the time taken into developing it. So, it would be better if more people pay, right? But why people would pay, if they can have almost everything for free?



As for the slow connection, I\'ve seen this being used as an excuse before, in the list I serve as a monitor (under yahoogroups.com). I have to say that I don\'t understand this as well. How the person can access ProZ and the answers and not access search sites? Now I have broadband access, for which I paid a good amount of money, and I consider this a \'plus\' I can offer my clients. But I had dial-up access for some years, and I faced the high telephone costs to do my job. It\'s part of the job, what can we do? Why should anyone expect others to do their work for them? Why not team up with other translators for the search, and PAY THEM? I think some people might agree with me that some searches take seconds... And I repeat that a lot of times the term doesn\'t need to be searched in the Internet, it is in the dictionary, just open it...



I still think that anyone that posts more than 10, 20 questions in a row does not want to think or even open a dictionary. At least that\'s what I have been seeing in my pair of languages (English Portuguese), it might be different in yours. Usually you can tell that the person has no clue about the subject and should not be working on it. The level is REALLY basic and a non-specified dictionary would generally help. So, for me it shows that someone that took an English>Portuguese job doesn\'t even own a simple, basic, bilingual dictionary. Or doesn\'t want to open it... Shouldn\'t this be avoided on a site that claims to be a \"Global community of language professionals\"?



Also, professionals generally can get the meaning of the word by the context, right? Mainly when you UNDERSTAND the text you\'re translating, and are not only throwing the words (as a machine translation would do in a much better way...). Some of the posts that generate this whole reaction from my part were \"new shares\", \"old shares\", \"the General Meeting\". Come on, give me a break!!! If I needed to be checking every little word in the dictionary it wouldn\'t pay off to be a translator!



And the empty profiles and anonymous posts are really annoying and I think finding a way of avoiding them should be carefully considered.



Thanks again for your views.



Adriana

Brazil


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 11:33
SITE FOUNDER
We are considering placing daily limits... Aug 3, 2002

...as part of a comprehensive program to boost quality. Platinum members and those who answer will be exempt.



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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 12:33
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
I appreciate this consideration for those who answer Aug 3, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-08-03 17:39, Henry wrote:

Platinum members and those who answer will be exempt.





And I think it\'s the first time I see it.

There are lots of interesting people who regularly answer and the deserve more consideration than those who just remember ProZ when they need help. It seems very fair to me.



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Adriana Caraccio Morgan, Dip Trans IOL  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 12:33
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, let's try to be fair... Aug 3, 2002

Yes, you\'re right. We cannot put all non-paying members in the same bag, right?



I\'m sure there will be a fair solution.



Thanks,



Adriana


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aivars  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 12:33
English to Spanish
+ ...
I shiver every time you come with "ideas" Aug 6, 2002

Limiting posts from non-participating parties (e.g. those who are neither Platinum nor Kudoz owners) sounds like a relieving solution. Still, is the damage done so serious that it requires the imposition of restrictions?

Let the wheels roll, a fair amount of wealth in the economic systems is based on illusions and imperfections.

You want to perfect it and it just stops working then. Ask Jorge Arbusto.


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OlafK
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:33
English to German
+ ...
sometimes clients give misleading information Aug 6, 2002

I just finished a translation job which I had been told by the PM was about photo-copiers but not very technical. It wasn\'t about photo-copiers at all but about printing machines and aimed at specialists. I had to do an awful lot of research, actually spent more time researching than translating and eventually posted three questions in KudoZ because I just couldn\'t find the words. Ohterwise it was an easy job, just a few difficult words, and with the help from ProZ members I think I did a good job.

I would never accept a technical translation but in marketing, art and literature you can get all sorts of technical terms. I once subtitled a film where they talked about car mechanics all the time. I know nothing about cars and at the time I didn\'t know ProZ either. I had a very short deadline and almost despaired.

In general I would only rely on my own expertise and take KudoZ answers with a grain of salt. But in the case of my last job I only received very good and informed answers and it was difficult to choose.

People who rely to heavily on KudoZ are just bad translators and will soon be found out. Some ProZ members cover all fields of specialisation in their profiles as well as translation into several foreign languages. Surely they can\'t be taken seriuosly.

Accepting jobs you know nothing about or just taking on too much work will always backfire. Before answering a question just look at the persons profile and decide if they \"deserve\" your help, e. g. if they offer criminally low rates.


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xxxTService  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:33
English to German
I do not like that idea... Aug 7, 2002

Hi there, all...



There ARE serious reasons why people post multiple KudoZ questions.

Just think about those who do not enjoy the benefits of a non-metered inexpensive internet connection and live in countries where internet access costs a fortune. Those people have to limit their internet activities to a few minutes per day - so they\'re forced to post cumulated questions in sequence. Just be glad if you have no problems staying online whole day long - others can\'t.



Your next argument deals with incompetence; translators should not accept a job if they are not familiar with the matter.

This appears partial correct.

Every day I see job offers - and just minutes afterwards dozens of bids. NOBODY could know if he can do the job without having a look at the source text first; no matter what the text\'s about.

This MAY be the reason for people asking lots of simple questions - and in many cases this thought might be right.

But there are cases where people see no problems when translating a sample text, apply for that job - and are faced with a significantly complex text that has not much to do with the sample translation they formerly did.

I\'m pretty sure that every active translator experienced that sort of ugly things.

So excessive asking is the only chance of delivering a proper translation in time.



Just consider these two points (there are several more) before judging.



Joern...


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Adriana Caraccio Morgan, Dip Trans IOL  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 12:33
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What other "ideas" you are ttalking about, aivars? Aug 7, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-08-06 05:31, aivars wrote:

Limiting posts from non-participating parties (e.g. those who are neither Platinum nor Kudoz owners) sounds like a relieving solution. Still, is the damage done so serious that it requires the imposition of restrictions?

Let the wheels roll, a fair amount of wealth in the economic systems is based on illusions and imperfections.

You want to perfect it and it just stops working then. Ask Jorge Arbusto.





And who is Jorge Arbusto?



Yes, I know nothing can be perfect. But I think it can be better than it is, and I\'m willing to contribute with ideas.



Adriana





[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-08-07 16:04 ]

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-08-07 16:06 ]

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Adriana Caraccio Morgan, Dip Trans IOL  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 12:33
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What other Aug 7, 2002



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-08-07 16:05 ]


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John Kinory
Local time: 16:33
English to Hebrew
+ ...
No, you can't ... Aug 20, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-08-03 07:01, Lemster wrote:

If you think you\'re getting too many e-mail notifications, you can always adjust your e-mail settings.





... because the settings do not allow you to choose \'no more than X questions from one asker in language-pair Y-Z\'.


[addsig]

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John Kinory
Local time: 16:33
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Can you clarify please, Henry? Aug 20, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-08-03 17:39, Henry wrote:

Platinum members and those who answer will be exempt.





What do you mean by \'those who answer\'? Members who answer regularly, or in that language-pair on that day?



Thanks!
[addsig]

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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 11:33
SITE FOUNDER
If you have answered 100 questions, you can ask at least 100. Aug 21, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-08-20 18:02, JK1 wrote:

Quote:


On 2002-08-03 17:39, Henry wrote:

Platinum members and those who answer will be exempt.





What do you mean by \'those who answer\'? Members who answer regularly, or in that language-pair on that day?



Thanks!







It may be necessary to come up with specific rules for specific conditions, but basically, if you have answered 100 questions you can ask at least 100 before any limitations will be imposed on you.



In other words, the overall and daily rules would kick in only if you have have asked more than you have answered and are not a paying member.

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Sven Petersson  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 17:33
English to Swedish
+ ...
DISAGREE TOTALLY Aug 24, 2002

Dear Adriana,



If you devoted your time to answering ProZ term questions instead of repeating this destructive suggestion you would, when you reach the top in a language combination, find that you have so many offers for well paid translation jobs that you either will have to turn down most of them or become a translation agency.



Try it!



It works!



Best regards,



Sven.



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