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proz.com terminology and other suggestions
Thread poster: xxxsavaria
xxxsavaria
Hungary
Local time: 16:20
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Jul 28, 2006

I think the terminology that proz.com uses is quite an incomprehensible one.

Let's just imagine yourself in the place of an absolutely newcomer to the site.We are speaking about KudoZ,BrowniZ and a wide range of other terms that have no sensible meaning nor in English,neitherin any of the other Indo European languages.
The word KudoZ nand BrowniZ do not mean anything to me.T he thing KudoZ is given for I would call either merits or accomplishments,while I would either absolutely forget about BrowniZ as not the activity you are showing on a site that counts,but the degree to which you help with your answer.So I would call KudoZ merits and BrowniZ site activity.

And I thing at the end of each year it would be rather sensible to start the KudoZ from 0,because there are plenty of newcomers every day who are hard-working and clever,but if an older colleague has say,10910 KudoZ,then a newcomer to the site can never get in front of him in the KudoZ list,can he?And however KudoZ she gains,meritfully or not,it is all the same.So my other suggestion is to restart the KudoZ each year from zero,and perhaps mention in the profile for the outsorcerers that this and this translator has earned,say 13 000 KudoZ in 2004,12 000 KudoZ in 2005 and so on.

[Módosítva: 2006-07-28 21:17]


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 13:20
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Some information Jul 28, 2006

Gábor Széles wrote:

I think the terminology that proz.com uses is quite an incomprehensible one.

Let's just imagine yourself in the place of an absolutely newcomer to the site.We are speaking about KudoZ,BrowniZ and a wide range of other terms that have no sensible meaning nor in English,neitherin any of the other Indo European languages.
The word KudoZ nand BrowniZ do not mean anything to me.T he thing KudoZ is given for I would call either merits or accomplishments,while I would either absolutely forget about BrowniZ as not the activity you are showing on a site that counts,but the degree to which you help with your answer.So I would call KudoZ merits and BrowniZ site activity.


Dear Gábor,

I wouldn't say the site is so difficult to understand, as there is plenty of documentation, and you may have just missed some of it.

In particular, see a detailed Glossary in this article: http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/591/

There is also a site map, in http://www.proz.com/sitemap
other information is dispersed in various pages, under a "(?)" icon, and there is a large corpus of FAQs, but you have not missed that for sure.

There are also two more articles, in:
http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/596/ (A Guide for Translators), and
http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/597/ (A Guide for Outsourcers).

I believe that anyone starting from the site map can find all the above, to navigate, explore and learn all the main concepts about ProZ.com in perhaps a couple of hours. The rest and the details may take longer, as it is a vast site and it has many features and sections.



Gábor Széles wrote:

And I thing at the end of each year it would be rather sensible to start the KudoZ from 0,because there are plenty of newcomers every day who are hard-working and clever,but if an older colleague has say,10910 KudoZ,then a newcomer to the site can never get in front of him in the KudoZ list,can he?And however KudoZ she gains,meritfully or not,it is all the same.So my other suggestion is to restart the KudoZ each year from zero,and perhaps mention in the profile for the outsorcerers that this and this translator has earned,say 13 000 KudoZ in 2004,12 000 KudoZ in 2005 and so on.



On the other hand, you may admit, your proposal would be extremely unfair to those having spent already a lot of time and effort in answering KudoZ questions.
Anyway, the same concerns that you have expressed have been considered time ago, when the KudoZ leaderboard has been redesigned from the ground up.

Now it has 2 additional sections, one each for the most recent 3 and 12 months, in addition to the overall KudoZ total (which was the only listing available at the time).

Anyone looking at the current leaderboards, will effectively see 3 groups of leaders, for different time spans (short, medium and total).
Also, every broad field has now a separate board, diluting the cumulative effects and giving space to many more members, in particular to the specialists who tend to excel in a specific section only. In the past they were buried under the large number of points awarded to the 'generalists'.

I have seen many newcomers climb quickly the boards, in particular when they have applied their skills to a specific field of specialization, rising into positions of good visibility within 12 months, and even sooner in the fields where they had really good expertise.


bye
Gianfranco




[Edited at 2006-07-28 22:45]


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Liliana Roman-Hamilton  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:20
English to Italian
A few questions Jul 29, 2006

Forgive me Gabor, but I have a few of questions for you, because I seem not to understand the purpose of your posting this question.

I have had a look at your profile, up to now you have given about 167 answers, most of them (let's say about 80% of them, to be fair) have received (rightly) several disagrees, because in most cases your answers were clearly wrong (despite your high confidence level), poorly written, out of context, or even answered in the wrong language. In other instances you have given 2 or 3 answers to the same question, going openly against the Kudoz rules.

Up to now you have accrued 54 total Kudoz points. All in all your effective activity here at Proz has been poor, let me tell you. The answers you have given speak for themselves.

I do not doubt that you are a hard-working guy, willing to take part to Proz, but frankly speaking, have you ever asked yourself what's the reason of so many disagrees to your answers, which have NOT given you any Kudoz points and have mined your trustworthiness? Don't you think that YOU need to do something and not have the whole community change for newcomers like you?

Which is the purpose of nullifying the Kudoz points at the beginning of the year? Don't you think that it would be extremely unfair to the other colleagues who are more effective and consistent than you are in giving CORRECT answers, to see their efforts nullified?

There are several excellent translators here, whose past activity has been extremely abundant, but who now might not be as active as before.
IMHO their expertise should be maintained visible to the whole community through the Kudoz rankings, because it is the recognition of their contribution to the quality of this website and to the whole Proz community. And personally speaking these excellent colleagues are a constant inspiration for me. Nullifying all this would be wrong IMHO.


Please, read carefully the links that Gianfranco gave you, to get yourself acquainted with the whole site. After all it is not at all difficult to understand how it works, believe me. And maybe it will help to improve your work.

L.


[Edited at 2006-07-29 00:23]


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writeaway  Identity Verified

Local time: 16:20
Partial member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
Isn't the site now in Hungarian as well? Jul 29, 2006

Gábor Széles wrote:

I think the terminology that proz.com uses is quite an incomprehensible one.

Let's just imagine yourself in the place of an absolutely newcomer to the site.We are speaking about KudoZ,BrowniZ and a wide range of other terms that have no sensible meaning nor in English,neitherin any of the other Indo European languages.
The word KudoZ nand BrowniZ do not mean anything to me.T he thing KudoZ is given for I would call either merits or accomplishments,while I would either absolutely forget about BrowniZ as not the activity you are showing on a site that counts,but the degree to which you help with your answer.So I would call KudoZ merits and BrowniZ site activity.

And I thing at the end of each year it would be rather sensible to start the KudoZ from 0,because there are plenty of newcomers every day who are hard-working and clever,but if an older colleague has say,10910 KudoZ,then a newcomer to the site can never get in front of him in the KudoZ list,can he?And however KudoZ she gains,meritfully or not,it is all the same.So my other suggestion is to restart the KudoZ each year from zero,and perhaps mention in the profile for the outsorcerers that this and this translator has earned,say 13 000 KudoZ in 2004,12 000 KudoZ in 2005 and so on.

[Módosítva: 2006-07-28 21:17]


Why don't you look at the site in Hungarian. That should clear a few things up for you. Look at the left at 'site language" and set it to 'magyar'.

And as for Kudoz points, agree with Gianfranco.


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Steven Sidore  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:20
Member (2003)
German to English
Kudoz and Browniz are perfectly clear to English speakers Jul 29, 2006

The terms Kudoz and Browniz are actually quite clear to most English speakers, I believe, because they are based on two quite common words: kudos and brownies (short for brownie points).

From Merriam-Webster:
Kudos
1 : AWARD, HONOR
2 : COMPLIMENT, PRAISE

brownie point
Usage: often capitalized B
: a credit regarded as earned especially by currying favor (as with a superior)


Don't let the 'z' on the end throw you off. Besides the fact that youngsters toss a 'z' in the place of an 's' pretty much everywhere nowadays (boyz and warez, to quote two obvious examples), it's also a play on the website name, which, as I heard the story, was supposed to be pros.com but that name was already taken.

Hope that clears it up for you!



[Edited at 2006-07-29 22:12]


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xxxdf49f
France
Local time: 16:20
strange... Jul 29, 2006

Steven Sidore wrote:

The terms Kudoz and Browniz are actually quite clear to most English speakers, I believe, because they are based on two quite common words: kudos and brownies (short for brownie points).
...


... strange that Gabor needed to have the terms explained: after all, his profile shows that he translates from and into English, so it should have been obvious or at least searchable in his English dictionaries...
)
df


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Rosa Maria Duenas Rios  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:20
Give time to time Jul 29, 2006

Liliana Roman-Hamilton wrote:

I do not doubt that you are a hard-working guy, willing to take part to Proz, but frankly speaking, have you ever asked yourself what's the reason of so many disagrees to your answers, which have NOT given you any Kudoz points and have mined your trustworthiness? Don't you think that YOU need to do something and not have the whole community change for newcomers like you?



Hi Gabor,

I agree with Liliana that, being a newcomer (you have been in Proz.com for around three months), it might be convenient to give yourself more time to get acquainted with the site rules and daily activity, before suggesting changes or modifications to some of the features.


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Csaba Ban  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 16:20
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
FAQ Jul 29, 2006

It's always useful to read the FAQ section of anything you are not familiar with.
Mind you, we all started out as newcomers, including me, and started watching activities on the site, and, presto, we all started to understand the concepts behind the site.

And yes, the site is now available in Hungarian, although not everything appears in Hungarian as yet.

Csaba


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Refugio
Local time: 07:20
Spanish to English
+ ...
Brownie points Jul 30, 2006

[quote]Steven Sidore wrote:



Of course I am sure that you, like "most English speakers", must be well aware of the obscene origin of the term brownie points. It comes from the expression "brown-nosing", related to "kissing up" and "ass-kissing". One wonders if browniz is really an appropriate term for what we do on KudoZ. But perhaps that is the way the powers that be at ProZ perceive our activities.


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HarryHedgehog
Germany
Local time: 16:20
German to English
I don't equate brownie points with brown-nosing Jul 30, 2006

Ruth Henderson wrote:

Of course I am sure that you, like "most English speakers", must be well aware of the obscene origin of the term brownie points. It comes from the expression "brown-nosing", related to "kissing up" and "ass-kissing".


While that's quite a humorous interpretation, I believe the term actually comes from the Brownies, the female equivalent of the Cub Scouts.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bro3.htm has an interesting discussion of the topic.

Yours,
HH


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Maria Eugenia Farre  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 12:20
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Has he asked you to dissect his kudoz activity? Jul 30, 2006

Liliana

Sorry, but what does Gábor's Kudoz performance have to do with his opinions about whether Kudoz and Browniz are suitable names or whether the kudoz counter should be reset every year?

I found your response a blow below the belt in the worst ad hominem tradition. No matter how poorly he does at Kudoz he is entitled to his opinion and those who disagree should present valid arguments not mean criticism.


ME





Liliana Roman-Hamilton wrote:


I have had a look at your profile, up to now you have given about 167 answers, most of them (let's say about 80% of them, to be fair) have received (rightly) several disagrees, because in most cases your answers were clearly wrong (despite your high confidence level), poorly written, out of context, or even answered in the wrong language. In other instances you have given 2 or 3 answers to the same question, going openly against the Kudoz rules.

Up to now you have accrued 54 total Kudoz points. All in all your effective activity here at Proz has been poor, let me tell you. The answers you have given speak for themselves.

I do not doubt that you are a hard-working guy, willing to take part to Proz, but frankly speaking, have you ever asked yourself what's the reason of so many disagrees to your answers, which have NOT given you any Kudoz points and have mined your trustworthiness? Don't you think that YOU need to do something and not have the whole community change for newcomers like you?


L.


[Edited at 2006-07-29 00:23]


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:20
French to English
Brownie points Jul 31, 2006

HarryHedgehog wrote:

Ruth Henderson wrote:

Of course I am sure that you, like "most English speakers", must be well aware of the obscene origin of the term brownie points. It comes from the expression "brown-nosing", related to "kissing up" and "ass-kissing".


While that's quite a humorous interpretation, I believe the term actually comes from the Brownies, the female equivalent of the Cub Scouts.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bro3.htm has an interesting discussion of the topic.

Yours,
HH


I'm with HH. In my experience, it just means small tasks or minor assistance, usually with some expected benefit in return at some point, e.g. "If I go to the supermarket and do the hoovering, that should get me enough brownie points with the wife so she'll let me go to the pub to watch the footy." That kind of thing...


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