Splitting Kudoz Points
Thread poster: Yaotl Altan

Yaotl Altan  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 15:53
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Feb 1, 2007

When we assign Kudoz we can choose from 1 to 4 points according to the relevance of the suggested answers.

What do you thnk about this? Sometimes you have a doubt, 3 or 4 translators answer and from this 3 or 4 options, there are 2 very close answers. I would like to assign 3 points to one translator and 1 to the other.

Why? Because the 3-point winner has a better info background when answering, this is, he/she contributed with 4 very good URLs and was supported by 6 or 7 users. On the other hand, the 1-point winner helped with 1 URL and was less supported (2 or 3 agrees). ... BUT ....
... these two answers are very close to each other and most of the times there are only a few localization differences, for instance, Venezuelan Spanish and Mexican Spanish.

What about 2 very close answers supported by the same number of agrees and URLs? What about if these 2 appeared at the same time? 2 points to each one would be better than a binary decision.







[Edited at 2007-02-01 15:28]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2007-02-12 00:24]


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Patricia Rosas  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:53
Spanish to English
+ ...
already discussed -- Feb 1, 2007

Here's a link
http://www.proz.com/post/318234#318234

I entirely agree with you, but in that thread, one of the moderators wrote:

Thanks for your question about splitting KudoZ points. This has been evaluated in the past, and it was decided that the asker should pick a single answer to award the points.

The suggested criterion is:

a) Select the answer that was most useful for you

b) Faced with two or more answers equally useful, pick the one that arrived first.


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Yaotl Altan  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 15:53
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you. Feb 1, 2007

Well, we have to wait to discuss. I realize I'm not the only one who wants to split kudoz

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Mulyadi Subali  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 03:53
English to Indonesian
+ ...
agree on splitting points Feb 1, 2007

it is true that sometimes i feel that it's not worth to give good explanation, as it can be used by others to give 'alternative answer'. lol. just my two cents.

[Edited at 2007-02-01 04:24]


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Anne Patteet  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:53
English to French
+ ...
I also agree on that... Feb 1, 2007

And for an additional reason too: sometimes nobody knows what to answer for a while because nobody has any idea of what the term may mean. Then someone comes up with a good research (or just knows the "stuff"), an explanation, and a somewhat good translation. Then, all of a sudden other translators propose better terms or expressions, but they couldn't have found the solution in the first place because they didn't take time to do the research or didn't know what it was about. In those cases I'd like to split the points between the one who knew/found what it meant, and the one who gives the best target word/term/expression.

It's a shame it can't be done, and I'm also pleased to see I'm not alone...


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Patricia Rosas  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:53
Spanish to English
+ ...
sums up how I feel, too ... Feb 1, 2007

Anne Patteet wrote:

And for an additional reason too: sometimes nobody knows what to answer for a while because nobody has any idea of what the term may mean. Then someone comes up with a good research (or just knows the "stuff"), an explanation, and a somewhat good translation. Then, all of a sudden other translators propose better terms or expressions, but they couldn't have found the solution in the first place because they didn't take time to do the research or didn't know what it was about. In those cases I'd like to split the points between the one who knew/found what it meant, and the one who gives the best target word/term/expression.



That has been my experience, too. Usually I award pts. to the "person who helped the most" -- that is, the person who did the research or whose experience positioned them to know the right interpretation for the word or phrase. However, influenced by the other good answers, I often that I don't use the points-awarded answer (if it's a phrase) in the exact form that it originally appeared. In this case, I always want to give points to two or more people...


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TrueBaller  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:53
Albanian to English
+ ...
me, too... Feb 1, 2007

and... I thought I was the only one thinking about that... Well, I can't tell ya' how glad I am to see I have got friends. You have just read my mind...

I totally agree with all of you. It is so true what Anne has said... and so sad that those who do the hard work of looking for the right answer(s) and/or explanation often "get crushed" by "the smart ones" who don't bother to go through the pain of research work. The hard workers should be recognized and I think that splitting points is a great way to do that (in addition to sending individual "thank you" notes to them, of course...)


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pma
Spain
Local time: 22:53
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
Recognizing the most useful answer. Feb 2, 2007

Yes, Anne is right, but the points shouldn´t be shared.

The person who first comes up with a good explanation should get ALL the points. An asker posts a question because he or she simply fails to understand the stuff. Once an explanation is given it is very easy to make a couple of slight changes in the suggested translation. Is that useful? NOT at all. The asker can pretty well do that by him or herself, because there is a solution to the problem in place, so, it is easy to recognize the most useful answer.
Anybody who interferes after the good explanation is given should actually be fined with 10 points!


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Yaotl Altan  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 15:53
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
A poll Feb 2, 2007

Shouldn't we start a poll about this topic? It could be a good thermometer about this topic.

Let's start, at least, with stickers for the car:"I support Kudoz split"


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Anne Patteet  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:53
English to French
+ ...
I guess you're right, pma, Feb 2, 2007

pma wrote:

Yes, Anne is right, but the points shouldn´t be shared.

The person who first comes up with a good explanation should get ALL the points. An asker posts a question because he or she simply fails to understand the stuff. Once an explanation is given it is very easy to make a couple of slight changes in the suggested translation. Is that useful? NOT at all. The asker can pretty well do that by him or herself, because there is a solution to the problem in place, so, it is easy to recognize the most useful answer.


But not all askers do that, they just go for the "right" answer...

Also, sometimes the asker knows what the term means, and really is looking for the best way to put it, so then I'd say it's okay to have people thinking about the "best translation". But when it obviously is a problem of knowing or finding the meaning, I'd appreciate to be able to split the points. Some answerers are more delicate than others, though, and put an "agree" and slightly reformulate the right explanation's answer. I try to do that myself if that answer is correct but not very well said.

Yaotl, I find the idea of a poll not bad at all... (I'm not crazy about the bumper stickers though)


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 16:53
English to French
+ ...
Agree Feb 2, 2007

And I also don't like the suggestion that, when faced with two answers that are equally useful, you should pick the one that arrived first. We already have enough people who post answers minutes after the question was posted, and in many cases, their utterly wrong answer makes it into the glossary. Why add to that already bad tendency, why encourage people to make a sprint race out of KudoZ?

[Edited at 2007-02-02 10:20]


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Paula Vaz-Carreiro  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:53
Portuguese
+ ...
Not getting the points when you did all the work Feb 8, 2007

Recently I have had several questions go to other translators who appear to have simply read my hard-researched answer and then suggested their own better translations. I must confess that this kind of behaviour is close to discouraging me from answering at all.

The decent thing to do would be to agree and, in the agree, propose the better word or expression. However, decency of this kind is scarce on the ground. Up to now, I have always told myself that in researching and question was learning and that the points didn't really matter, etc.

However, as my husband pointed out, researching an answer does take time and that there is evidence that the points do matter somewhat (outsourcers and all that). I feel particularly sad and annoyed when a question hasn't been answered for sometime, then you go in with your well justified/explained suggestion and then, suddenly, half the world finds that they have a suggestion of their own.

Therefore, I agree with pma when he says:

pma wrote:
Anybody who interferes after the good explanation is given should actually be fined with 10 points!


I think a system of fines for certain kinds of behaviour would do a lot to improve the quality of the site, the accuracy of the glossary, and to attract answers from good translators.

I know of several good translators who have stopped answering because this kind of behaviour and, as I said before, I am currently feeling inclined to imitate them unless something is done to discourage it. Not only does it take just rewards away from those who deserve it, it also lowers the quality of this site.


[Edited at 2007-02-08 16:08]


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Yaotl Altan  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 15:53
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Right Jun 6, 2007

Paula Vaz-Carreiro wrote:

..

The decent thing to do would be to agree and, in the agree, propose the better word or expression. However, decency of this kind is scarce on the ground. Up to now, I have always told myself that in researching and question was learning and that the points didn't really matter, etc.

However, as my husband pointed out, researching an answer does take time and that there is evidence that the points do matter somewhat (outsourcers and all that). I feel particularly sad and annoyed when a question hasn't been answered for sometime, then you go in with your well justified/explained suggestion and then, suddenly, half the world finds that they have a suggestion of their own.


...


I know, you are talking about those little differences in Kudoz answers people give some minutes (and sometimes, just seconds) after the first answer is given.

Yes, there are some evident cases on this issue.


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