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Implement some kind of average for points earned (T)
Thread poster: Tomás Rosa Bueno

Tomás Rosa Bueno  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 05:24
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Dec 29, 2002

I think ProZ could implement some kind of average for points earned. For example, if someone answers 672 tech questions and earns 811 KudoZ points, he has an average of 1.2 points per answer given. If another translator has anwered 31 tech questions to earn 52 points, he has an average of 1.67 points per answer and is obviously a much safer bet as a good tech translator, even if he is way behind in KudoZ points. (The numbers were taken from existing profiles.)



This shouldn\'t be too hard to implement, from a technical point of view. It would inhibit certain less-than-honest practices and be a good at-a-glance meter for recruiters.

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2005-02-03 19:59]


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Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 10:24
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
Something like that Dec 29, 2002

existed in the past (I don\'t remember how exactly this index has been called then). Something like that will be provided in future, it is described already in the FAQ page (KudoZ reliability index).

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Tomás Rosa Bueno  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 05:24
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re: Something like that Dec 29, 2002

Oops! That means I didn\'t read the FAQs with enough attention.





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rhandler  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:24
Spanish to Portuguese
+ ...
Be careful: the asker is the referee! Dec 29, 2002

At first, your idea seems very good, but we must be careful. Points are granted by the asker, and not always the asker selects the best answer. I\'ve even seen wrong answers being granted 4 points. Although this is not the rule, it is very (too) common. But it was a good idea to bring the subject to the Forum, so we may give it a thought.

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Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 10:24
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
Tayfun, Dec 29, 2002

some similar index DID exist in the past. It was based on the ratio of answers given and answers accepted.

The suggested Kudoz Reliability ratio is different and more complicated, and, of course, it\'s introducing into practice needs to be discussed and \'the costs should be counted\'. But you are wrong saying \"less you answer but more you disagree your grade will be higher\": if you don\'t answer and your answers aren\'t accepted, no \"disagrees\" will improve your rating (though peer grading will bring you some extra BrowniZ, of course).


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Claudia Tomaschek  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:24
English to German
+ ...
Not a good idea Dec 29, 2002

I think it is pretty arbitrary how many point someone is awarded. And it definitely doesn\'t have to do with quality. Even the number of questions a person answered and the number of times she wins doesn\'t really give any clue about the reliability.



However if an answer contains a good explanation, more then just a dictionary entry or links to web pages, then the likelyhood is pretty high that the answer is good and reliable.


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Evert DELOOF-SYS  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 10:24
Member
English to Dutch
+ ...
You're right Dec 30, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-12-29 20:01, Natalie wrote:

some similar index DID exist in the past. It was based on the ratio of answers given and answers accepted.

The suggested Kudoz Reliability ratio is different and more complicated, and, of course, it\'s introducing into practice needs to be discussed and \'the costs should be counted\'. But you are wrong saying \"less you answer but more you disagree your grade will be higher\": if you don\'t answer and your answers aren\'t accepted, no \"disagrees\" will improve your rating (though peer grading will bring you some extra BrowniZ, of course).





A GPA for both \'easy\' and \'pro\' questions is already in place and lurking in the background for quite some time already.



ProZ staff is fine-tuning everything before releasing it to the general public.

GPA was and will be based on points received and the number of agrees/disagrees/neutrals whereby careful thought has been given as to weigh the importance of these grades.



I fully agree with Tomas that some people just enter about anything and we, therefore, still have to find a fair system to avoid that such grades would be calculated as well.




[addsig]

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Paul Stevens  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:24
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
A bad idea Dec 30, 2002

I thoroughly agree with Claudia that this is simply not a good idea for various reasons:



(i) The asker sometimes chooses an incorrect or not the best answer because of many \"agrees\" being given to the answer selected - this is often due to the lack of expertise in the specific field of expertise of the asker and those agreeing.



(ii) It seems to me that \"agrees\" are often given by translators who may have become close friends of the person giving an answer, even though there are better answers which are not \"agreed\" by the same person - i.e. the granting of \"agrees\" is too often based on friendships.



(iii) \"Disagrees\" can also sometimes be subjective, for example, because a certain person has or has had a problem with another ProZ member.



(iv) This rating system might also encourage more people to \"disagree\" for petty reasons (e.g. inadvertent typo) so as to give themselves a better chance of a higher rating than someone else. This could particularly be the case once the asker has awarded his/her points. It has always seemed odd to me that someone can still \"agree\" or \"disagree\" to an answer after the asker has awarded the points.



(v) On the other hand, when I ask for help on queries, and I am certain that I have received the right answer, I will award the points as soon as I am happy with the correct answer, and this could be before any \"agrees\" come in. In spite of my comments above regarding \"agrees\"/\"disagrees\" soemtimes coming in after the query has been rated by the asker, most members probably do not bother looking at closed questions and therefore the person awarded the points loses the chance of getting some \"agrees\". This therefore could totally unbalance the proposed new rating system.



At the end of the day, I think that adding this new rating system will do nothing but muddy the waters, since it adds a much greater amount of subjectivity to the system.



Previously, your points rating (i.e. overall points gained) was just down to one person (i.e. the asker) AIDED BY other members\' opinions, which could be taken into account or ignored, at the askers\' option. Whilst that is not ideal in itself, and the worng answers are sometimes chosen, we are now looking at an \"average\" rating which will be a lot more subjective since MANY people will have a direct bearing on the rating.



At the end of the day, I believe that the overall points total is absolutely fine by itself. Whilst it obviously makes it slightly more difficult for new translators to the site to impress prospective clients throught their points total in the early days, if they are good enough and serious enough, they will soon start building up points - this is what we have all had to do ourselves, and strikes me as the fairest way of marketing your ability on this site.



This new idea, in my opinion, frankly only overcomplicates what is a simple system that already works well. Why therefore change it?


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Robert INGLEDEW  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 05:24
English to Spanish
+ ...
IT DEPENDS Dec 30, 2002

When I started answering questions at Proz, I made it a point to answer every possible question, and after 3 months I was amongst the top ten in the general ranking. Now that I have a lot of work, and very little time, I only answer those questions I am absolutely sure of (or nearly sure). Depending on the selection of questions you decide to answer, your average can go up or down. I am aware that some translators like David Melendez Tormen are probably better than me, but have less Kudoz because they have been unable to answer questions for months, because they are doing a lot of business.



Today I am really not so worried about the ranking (you will still find me fourth in the general list, but you will not find me amongst the first one hundred for the last 3 months). I am aware that agencies see your answers and after a time they can easily decide if your services could be valuable to them, or not.



Presently eighty per cent of my customers are companies or persons I never would have known if it had not been for Proz. They found me there.



Robert Ingledew


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 04:24
SITE FOUNDER
Do not take/make this issue personal Dec 30, 2002

Lets focus on Tomas\'s proposal and stay away from remarks that are, or could be taken, personally. Henceforth, postings that do not stick to the point will be deleted.

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