Introduction of more specific language designations (different countries) (T)
Thread poster: kbamert

kbamert  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:05
French to German
+ ...
Jan 12, 2003

Hello



I would like to suggest the introduction of specific language varieties on the proz.com website, as for example, on the following website:



http://www.globalization.com/



The legal and administrative organisation and systems vary from country to country. If your target public (or market, or reader(s) of your text) is limited to a determined country, this additional function would be useful. In certain fields (law, administration) different countries have different vocabulary (sometimes only spelling).



Here are some examples copied from the above mentioned site (which can be improved according to the experience of the different proz.com members from different countries and with different language combinations):



German (for all German speaking countries)

German Germany

German Austrian

German Liechtenstein

German Luxembourg

German Swiss

German Italy (Südtirol) (Italian legal system)





French (for all French speaking countries)

French Belgian

French Canadian

French Luxembourg

French Standard or France?

French Swiss

French ? different African countries?



Spanish for all Spanish speaking countries

Spanish LA

Spanish Spain

Spanish Mexico

Spanish Argentina

etc.



Chinese Mandarin

Chinese Cantonese

etc. (I am not a specialist for Chinese)



Dutch

Dutch-Belgium (Flemish)



English (for all English speaking countries)

English Australia

English Canada

English Caribbean

English Ireland

English Jamaica

English New Zealand

English South Africa

English UK

English US



That way you could get more specific Kudoz answers (legel term in Austria for example) or find a translator who knows the legal German of Süd-Tirol (Italy), for example.



Kind regards



Kurt





[ This Message was edited by:on2003-01-12 17:26]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2005-02-03 19:29]


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 10:05
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
... Jan 12, 2003



[ This Message was edited by:on2003-01-12 12:40]


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 10:05
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Each choice presents advantages and disavantages Jan 12, 2003

These separations have been considered and discarded for practical reasons.



The languages are kept together for what they have in common rather than separated for what differentiate them in each country or region.



Any KudoZ question could be directed at a specific country/region in the body of the request, and still the debate is much richer in many other instances, with contributions from different linguistic backgrounds.



Gianfranco



[ This Message was edited by:on2003-01-12 12:41]


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kbamert  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:05
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Italian Jan 12, 2003

Hello



I can understand that in the case of Italian you don\'t have this problem, but in the case of German it is real, in my opinion it would be much easier for screening answers and translators; imagine a specialist for Austrian German (legal expressions) living in China. It is then difficult to find this person introducing Austria in the country field? As you have Italian as a target language and this problem doesn\'t occur with Italian I can\'t quite see the reason of your intervention and giving your personal opinion on this issue in the name of proz.com?



Kind regards



Kurt


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Marcus Malabad  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 15:05
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
it was a carefully considered judgment Jan 12, 2003

and not Gianfranco\'s personal opinion, Kurt. It was brought up several times and debated by the mods behind the scenes and, as GF said, was discarded for reasons due to practicality. No intervention has occurred.



The overriding argument against this was that it would unleash an unpractical torrent of subdivisions where, say, KudoZ directed to Austrian German speakers would not reach the needed breadth of experience that might be contributed by speakers of other dialects, say, High German. The distinction can very well be introduced in the body of the text as Gianfranco says. The asker could easily specify that he/she needs an explanation with a certain slant from a certain region.



By the way, there ARE distinctions in Italian - the so-called north-south divide. It may not be so apparent in technical lingo but is certainly so in colloquial speech.





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Arthur Borges
China
Local time: 21:05
English
+ ...
Good Idea! Jan 12, 2003

I do feel torn between Euro & CanFrench sometimes, or US & Britglish. It would also force the asker to choose, thereby gives answerers more context.



As for North & West African French, uh, some North Africans turn out some pretty convoluted text with lots of whose precise meaning they see and feel differently -- a real translator\'s headache until you\'re used to it.



The next issue of course is whether to carry that over into the breakdown of KudoZ points.



For Chinese, the distinction might sooner run between the ROC and PRC, as their institutions and legal systems differ, but I\'m no specialist in this department either.


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kbamert  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:05
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
difference between variety of language (country specific) and dialect Jan 12, 2003

Quote:
The overriding argument against this was that it would unleash an unpractical torrent of subdivisions where, say, KudoZ directed to Austrian German speakers would not reach the needed breadth of experience that might be contributed by speakers of other dialects, say, High German.



I am speaking here not about dialects but country specific varieties of languages (especially due to different legal systems and political and administrative organisation).


To be understood well, I don\'t want to abolish the term English, French, Spanish, German or Chinese etc.


So if you would like to reach all translators you would still be able to address your Kudoz-questions selecting English, French, Spanish, German or Chinese etc.


But if you expect a country specific answer or if you want describe your question with a country specific variety of language you would be able to activate this selection and reach only the professionals who would be able to give you a correct country specific answer (variety of language), as a kind of additional quality tool.


This would not prevent anybody to choose all the varieties (country specific) if he is interested to follow all the discussions about country specific expressions and terminology. You have just more possibilities to be more precise and to get better quality.


Difference: You may call a translator a linguist in the UK which is not a theoretical linguist as it is used in the US (as sombody explained recently). For this reason an Englishman or Englishwoman would not be considered as speaking a dialect with respect to a US citizen, wouldn\'t he or she?


As well a person from Peru would call and write [for] car (automobile) a \"carro\" without being considered speaking a Spanish dialect by a Spaniard calling it \"coche\".


In my opinion this would enormously improve the quality of the offers and questions on the proz.com website.


Quote:
By the way, there ARE distinctions in Italian - the so-called north-south divide. It may not be so apparent in technical lingo but is certainly so in colloquial speech.



Note that I am not thinking here of colloquial speech but only of written standard varieties of languages (specific to a country) with varieties for legal reasons, for example.


You are right, there are even different legal systems for Italian (written language):


Italian (no distinction) to reach the whole range of experience...


Italian Italy


Italian Ticino (different legal system)


Italian Grisons (different legal system)


This would be a very good idea indeed to introduce this distinctions as well for Italian (but not on a colloquial basis but for the written varieties of the language only).


I think behind the scene discussions of the moderators and decisions are sometimes certainly useful, but they should as well listen to the experience of the 40\'000 (new)members of the website, that\'s why exists a suggestion forum, doesn\'t it? And that\'s how we advance and change and adapt our opinions and decisions to improve the quality of the proz.com website aiming for real quality translations!


Kind regards


Kurt


P.S. I think as well that this function would force people to classify their questions and answers in function of the existing written varieties of languages (if ever they are conscious of them).

[ This Message was edited by:on2003-01-13 11:01]


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Introduction of more specific language designations (different countries) (T)

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