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Abuse of the KudoZ system
Thread poster: Patricia Lutteral

Patricia Lutteral  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:35
English to Spanish
+ ...
Dec 13, 2001

Hi everyone.

Today, someone by the name of \"Salto\" (empty profile) posted more than 40 questions of legal nature in the EN>ES section. Later, similar questions were posted by an equally empty profile (paski), and they are probably flooding our inboxes right now.

I personally squashed the questions that had received no answers, but unfortunately I wasn\'t quick enough.

Please, do not answer! This is clearly an abuse; this type of \"colleagues\" are making money with OUR job. Why should any of us, real professionals, make things easy for them? We need to weed them out; we study, we invest time and money to improve our services, we support each other, we are basically decent. They are not. They are cheating their clients, they are cheating us.



Best regards,



Patricia







_________________



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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 06:35
German to English
+ ...
Keep squashing them Dec 13, 2001

My advice: squash these questions (even those that have already been answered).



This kind of abuse is getting out of hand. It is happening every day now several times!



1. All anonymous/empty profiles should be removed from ProZ immediately.

2. Anyone answering these types of questions should be penalized (ie, take their KudoZ points away)



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Andrea Bullrich  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:35
Member
English to Spanish
Abuse, squashing Dec 13, 2001

Hi, Patricia, Werner & all.



I\'ve squashed some of these questions, but only those that had no answers.



I agree that these profiles should be removed, but I don\'t agree with penalizing the answerers. Quite on the contrary, I think questions with answers that may have been squashed should be restored and graded by a moderator. In this way we\'d be giving the answerers the benefit of the doubt (assuming they didn\'t realize it was an instance of abuse, and that the asker is not coming back to award KudoZ).



Just my opinion, though.



Andrea


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 06:35
German to English
+ ...
But you can't trust all moderators Dec 13, 2001

Hi,



Your idea sounds fine, but some moderators cannot be trusted (see my other thread on the subject).



If a series of questions is posted for the sole purpose of obtaining a free translation of an entire document, all these questions (AND the answers) should be squashed. In addition, those that knowingly provided the free translation (or parts of it) should be penalized.


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xxxJon Zuber
Spanish to English
+ ...
We need identity verification of all members. Dec 13, 2001

What good would it do to remove anonymous/empty profiles if an offender can just go set up another one immediately?

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John Kinory
Local time: 11:35
English to Hebrew
+ ...
About those who can be trusted and those who can't Dec 22, 2001

Here\'s an interesting exercise for long winter nights, or boring holidays:



1. Choose someone with lots of Kudoz - say 1000+.

2. Check their profile to see which languages they are qualified to translate INTO.

3. Then check to see whether they earned lots of points by suggesting translations into some other language(s).

4. Choose an area in that language in which they have earned lots of points (say, Technology). Click on the number of points.

5. See how many of their answers were chosen.

6. Look through some answers that were chosen, and some other answers that were not chosen; chances are you\'ll find in the table some suggestions that you consider absurd.

7. Make a note of how many of those people are moderators, or make a lot of noise in some other way.



You may be surprised by the results.
[addsig]


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 06:35
German to English
+ ...
Excellent observation! Dec 22, 2001

Quote:


On 2001-12-22 01:46, Yoni wrote:

Here\'s an interesting exercise for long winter nights, or boring holidays:



1. Choose someone with lots of Kudoz - say 1000+.

2. Check their profile to see which languages they are qualified to translate INTO.

3. Then check to see whether they earned lots of points by suggesting translations into some other language(s).

4. Choose an area in that language in which they have earned lots of points (say, Technology). Click on the number of points.

5. See how many of their answers were chosen.

6. Look through some answers that were chosen, and some other answers that were not chosen; chances are you\'ll find in the table some suggestions that you consider absurd.

7. Make a note of how many of those people are moderators, or make a lot of noise in some other way.



You may be surprised by the results.







John, you and I know who you are talking about



These are good points: in fact, you will find that many of the \"KudoZ leaders\" have collected their points in language pairs that they are not qualified for. Maybe they are not good enough to get as many points in their \"original\" language pairs only, so they have to \"roam\" (and ever so wildly and voraciously), always citing their trusted dictionaries (without ever having learnt how to use them properly, though ).



Looking at their answers (especially of that one \"colleague\" that John is referring to ) will reveal a flabbergasting degree of ineptitude - but not because they are \"bad\", but because they always dabble in language pairs that are not theirs.

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John Kinory
Local time: 11:35
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Some examples Dec 23, 2001

I know that Werner is also concerned about askers abusing the system - e.g. a Russian, in Russia, working Ger>Eng and having to post dozens of basic questions at a time. Yes, that\'s abuse that should be stopped. But I am more concerned about answering when you have no right to do so, because that is not only a waste of time - nobody FORCES us to answer superfluous questions - but also misleads the askers, sometimes dreadfully.

Probably the most amazing case I have encountered, purely by accident, was yesterday when answering a Ger>Eng Kudoz Q involving electronics (the shape of output signals). Now, that happens to be a field in which I have academic qualifications. But someone who only works SpanishEnglish chose to answer, revealing complete lack of understanding both of German and of electronics: he simply pasted in a long passage about floors (yes, those flat things you walk on). I became curious, and checked his page: he has answered questions in something like 15 language-pairs, incl. one into Hebrew (accepted by the asker), but the reply was really in Spanish!! What more can you say, except that they should be removed? This person, by the way, is hiding behind a \'clever\' pseudonym.
[addsig]


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 06:35
German to English
+ ...
Yes, this kind of abuse runs counter to the idea of the "Great Online Glossary" Dec 23, 2001

Quote:


On 2001-12-23 18:04, Yoni wrote:

I know that Werner is also concerned about askers abusing the system - e.g. a Russian, in Russia, working Ger>Eng and having to post dozens of basic questions at a time. Yes, that\'s abuse that should be stopped. But I am more concerned about answering when you have no right to do so, because that is not only a waste of time - nobody FORCES us to answer superfluous questions - but also misleads the askers, sometimes dreadfully.

Probably the most amazing case I have encountered, purely by accident, was yesterday when answering a Ger>Eng Kudoz Q involving electronics (the shape of output signals). Now, that happens to be a field in which I have academic qualifications. But someone who only works SpanishEnglish chose to answer, revealing complete lack of understanding both of German and of electronics: he simply pasted in a long passage about floors (yes, those flat things you walk on). I became curious, and checked his page: he has answered questions in something like 15 language-pairs, incl. one into Hebrew (accepted by the asker), but the reply was really in Spanish!! What more can you say, except that they should be removed? This person, by the way, is hiding behind a \'clever\' pseudonym.







I fully agree: I saw that question too, and the member in question, who, apparently, does not know the first thing about German and the subject matter (electronics), must have gone to some search engine, copied some piece of text and pasted it into the KudoZ page. Surely, this is not the intended purpose of KudoZ and the \"Great Online Glossary\".



ProZ must implement some kind of feature that bars members from answering questions in language pairs that are not their working languages. I agree with John: this kind of practice belittles the KudoZ system and confuses the asker (unfortunately, as John pointed out, some askers fall into the traps set up by those \"colleagues\" and choose inadequate answers).

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xxxJon Zuber
Spanish to English
+ ...
I'm afraid the suggested feature wouldn't help. Dec 26, 2001

[quote]

On 2001-12-23 23:52, AbacusTrans wrote:



ProZ must implement some kind of feature that bars members from answering questions in language pairs that are not their working languages.



Werner, do you think these people would hesitate to register themselves in additional pairs just to keep answering questions?


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 06:35
German to English
+ ...
Yes, Jon, ... Dec 26, 2001

[quote]

On 2001-12-26 13:47, Jon Zuber wrote:

Quote:


On 2001-12-23 23:52, AbacusTrans wrote:



ProZ must implement some kind of feature that bars members from answering questions in language pairs that are not their working languages.



Werner, do you think these people would hesitate to register themselves in additional pairs just to keep answering questions?





... and that\'s why everyone has to pick one dominant language (everyone has only one dominant language, even bilinguals or trilinguals), and all working-language pairs must include the dominant language (so, no more \"foreign to foreign\").

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xxxJon Zuber
Spanish to English
+ ...
How about awarding points only in answerers' working pairs? Dec 27, 2001

That would prevent some from answering questions all over the map just for the points, while allowing others to answer outside their pairs to be helpful. It would be in keeping with the idea of KudoZ as demonstration of expertise, because our working pairs are where we need it.

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John Kinory
Local time: 11:35
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Not enough, Jon, I fear Dec 27, 2001

I see where you are coming from, and I am sure that most people\'s intentions are good. But human nature being what it is, as is demonstrated here all too often, being helpful is not enough. Many members keep answering questions outside their areas of competence, and that includes working languages. Many of those answers are not just plain wrong, but ludicrously so. That still misleads the asker, regardless of points being or not being awarded. It makes those people look less professional, it makes Proz look totally unprofessional, it reflects badly on all of us.
[addsig]


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Lise Boismenu, B.Sc.
Canada
Local time: 06:35
English to French
Full agreement Dec 28, 2001

Quote:


On 2001-12-13 14:58, AbacusTrans wrote:

My advice: squash these questions (even those that have already been answered).



This kind of abuse is getting out of hand. It is happening every day now several times!



1. All anonymous/empty profiles should be removed from ProZ immediately.

2. Anyone answering these types of questions should be penalized (ie, take their KudoZ points away)





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Sarah Brenchley  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
Once again Dec 31, 2001

Quote:


On 2001-12-28 16:07, lise b wrote:

Quote:


On 2001-12-13 14:58, AbacusTrans wrote:

My advice: squash these questions (even those that have already been answered).



This kind of abuse is getting out of hand. It is happening every day now several times!



1. All anonymous/empty profiles should be removed from ProZ immediately.

2. Anyone answering these types of questions should be penalized (ie, take their KudoZ points away)









I totally agree but this has happened again today with the same person and over twenty postings in the last couple of hours. I\'ve written to the site so let\'s see if something can be done.

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