Mobile menu

Encouraged/compulsory fields for outsourcers
Thread poster: Rad Graban

Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:48
English to Slovak
+ ...
Dec 29, 2007

Dear all,

In response to members-only thread on "Encouraged fields", the fields we are "encouraged" to fill out to make it easier for the outsourcers to find "the best one" quicker, I would like to suggest some new ones for them.
1. Profit and loss statement (to see if the pathetic $0.05 per word is the best they can afford to pay)
2. Credit check report (to see how long it may take to get paid for the job done for them)
3. Sample of a final product they delivered to a client (to see if it won't embarassing to work for them if the quality is poor)

Any more suggesions would be appreciated.

P.S. I’m sorry, but no matter how “invisible” I’ll become to the outsourcers or how low I’ll be ranked among “good” translators, nobody’s going see a single dot of any of my projects or any details about them, be it on ProZ or elsewhere.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:48
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
To return to your point... Dec 29, 2007

Rad Graban wrote:
No matter how “invisible” I’ll become to the outsourcers or how low I’ll be ranked among “good” translators, nobody’s going see a single dot of any of my projects or any details about them, be it on ProZ or elsewhere.


I feel the same way. The current system whereby translators who can reveal various details about confidential projects are promoted above those who work in fields and for clients where confidentiality is a premium, is silly IMO. I have faithfully filled in every little thing in my profile (even the silly ones), but I just can't reveal the confidential information as requested.

Besides, if the encouraged fields become a requirement to gain a higher ranking, then they aren't really merely "encouraged fields" anymore, are they?

Since Rad had failed to make a suggestion in his post, I'll make it for him:

* Please remove the project history (field 14) from the "encouraged fields" list

I also feel a bit miffed for being penalised in field 15 (WWA entries from clients) for my unwillingness to pester colleagues and beg from clients to come fill in a little message on my profile. I'm willing to receive such comments, but I will not pan handle for it. Why should I then be penalised?


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:48
English to Slovak
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Dec 29, 2007

Thanks Samuel. Totally agree. Just because majority of my work is for the UK government and I have signed the Official Secrets Act and can't publish any of my projects or details about them on public website, I shouldn't drop to page seven in outsourcers' search results.

[Edited at 2007-12-29 12:48]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 00:48
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
"just can't reveal the confidential information as requested." Dec 29, 2007

Samuel Murray wrote: ... I have faithfully filled in every little thing in my profile (even the silly ones), but I just can't reveal the confidential information as requested.


As far as I know the process, nothing gets broadcast without express permission of the other party. Second, two strikes and you are out - if the client does not react twice, he/she cant be bothered again.

Fact is of course that our requests - including those without the positive answer - must be sitting around on ProZ' books. So maybe a "wipe out" button at that place in the profile would not hurt. And, if I am allowed to daydream, it would be nice to have something like a zero knowledge proof in action (sg): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Knowledge. That would at least take care of the fear that too much of the cat would get out of the bag: in this hypothetical wishful case, none.

Regards

Vito

[Urejeno ob 2007-12-29 13:06]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:48
English to Slovak
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
WWA - not all that bad Dec 29, 2007

I personally don't find WWA all that bad and use it for references. Rather than asking my existing clients to provide references to prospective clients and then having them to fill out various questionaires and wasting their time, I just direct my prospective ones to my profile page to check WWA. It's been working so far.

Regards,
Rad

[Edited at 2007-12-29 14:27]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 19:48
SITE STAFF
Confidentiality and ranking Dec 29, 2007

There are some questions and answers and examples in the original thread.

We fully agree on the importance of confidentiality. The project history examples in that thread suggest a way to convey an idea of what you do without giving away information about your customers and their projects.

The same applies to the Portfolio, where you could pick any freely available text within your fields of expertise and translate it just to show your skills.

Failing to complete any of there fields could exclude you from a search if the outsourcer considered that particular fields important enough to include it in the search, but it would have no efect in the ranking among the translators included in the search criteria.

Regards,
Enrique


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Ritu Bhanot  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 00:48
Member (2006)
French to Hindi
+ ...
WWA: My Experience Dec 29, 2007

In the beginning, I thought it was not bad at all and filled it. Some of my clients actually gave WWAs.
And then one day a client contacted me. Apparently, some "Translator" had seen my WWAs and decided to contact that client and tell them that I had advised her to contact them etc.
The client didn't appreciate it (of course I had not given the details). Please note that the clients' name does not appear anywhere in my profile. And that particular client does not figure on my site (or CV) either.
Eventually, I decided not to show WWA so as to avoid such cases in future.
And I think it is a wise decision.
Of course, it is just my experience.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Steven Capsuto  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:48
Spanish to English
+ ...
WWA etc. Dec 29, 2007

Who my clients are is confidential information, even though many of them are surely willing to give ratings.

It's MY confidential information.

My client list is one of the key resources of my business. I'm not about to give it away to prospective competitors, and that's that. I can't imagine why other freelancers are so keen to reveal information that can only hurt them. As for the project history, again this is time-consuming and nobody's business.

[Edited at 2007-12-29 16:19]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:48
English to Slovak
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Sorry about your experience Dec 29, 2007

Ritu Bhanot wrote:

In the beginning, I thought it was not bad at all and filled it. Some of my clients actually gave WWAs.
And then one day a client contacted me. Apparently, some "Translator" had seen my WWAs and decided to contact that client and tell them that I had advised her to contact them etc.
The client didn't appreciate it (of course I had not given the details). Please note that the clients' name does not appear anywhere in my profile. And that particular client does not figure on my site (or CV) either.
Eventually, I decided not to show WWA so as to avoid such cases in future.
And I think it is a wise decision.
Of course, it is just my experience.


Sorry for your experience Ritu.
Other members' opinion is more or less the same: "Waste of time", "Can of warms". However, it's working for me.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:48
English to Slovak
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Back to my original posting Dec 29, 2007

Seriously, if we (the freelancers) are supposed to provide (or being "encouraged") to provide all this info to the outsoursesr to make their life easier, why can't we have something in return? To be able to check credit score of outsourcer would safe us lots of time we spend on chasing payments.

Direct link Reply with quote
 

LegalTransform  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:48
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Despicable "translators" Dec 29, 2007

Some despicable "translators" even search through the BlueBoard entries and when they see a positive comment from a translator (possibly with a positive return comment from the outsourcer), they contact that outsourcer saying that they know you, have worked with you on projects, you recommend them, you recommended their agency to them, etc. Then when their work is sub-par, or they pester the agency with annoying e-mails, phone calls, etc., the agency gets mad at you.

Thankfully, I was able to discover what this "person" had done. But how much of this kind of activity goes unnoticed? I could have lost a client and never known why. The same is also true of references. There are companies who solicit translators when their true motive is just to steal clients.

I am seriously considering removing all of my BlueBoard entries if possible. I thought that making them invisible on the profile would be enough, but I was wrong.

The existance and exposure of ProZ and other sites have brought a lot of "translators" into the field who otherwise would have sought employment elsewhere. Allowing outsourcers to specify rates, ask for discounts, ask for "best rates" or some linguistic permutation thereof, etc. lowers the industry's perception in the mind of the consumer, resulting in lower rates and brings out the worst in people in terms of unethical competition and behavior.

The average consumer of translation cannot tell the difference between a .12 a word translation and a .03 a word translation, so of course, they will choose the latter because they cannot perceive the difference in quality. The average consumer of translation who is paying .20 a word to have their work done, does not know whether the agency is using a .12 a word translator or a .03 a word translator or what the difference would be (exceptions made for excellent .03-a-word translators in countries where the economy (partially) justifies this).

ProZ should try to educate outsourcers about the importance of quality. This would help stabilize rates and most of these "people" and the problems they cause would simply go away.

Until that time, professional translators are forced to keep more and more information private in order to protect ourselves from the massive minions of bottom feeders, wanabees, liars and con artists.

Ritu Bhanot wrote:

In the beginning, I thought it was not bad at all and filled it. Some of my clients actually gave WWAs.
And then one day a client contacted me. Apparently, some "Translator" had seen my WWAs and decided to contact that client and tell them that I had advised her to contact them etc.
The client didn't appreciate it (of course I had not given the details). Please note that the clients' name does not appear anywhere in my profile. And that particular client does not figure on my site (or CV) either.
Eventually, I decided not to show WWA so as to avoid such cases in future.
And I think it is a wise decision.
Of course, it is just my experience.


[Edited at 2007-12-30 05:42]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:48
English to Slovak
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Jeff Dec 29, 2007

We can just hope for an eye-opener on ProZ.com side.

Shall see.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Andrea Riffo  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 18:48
English to Spanish
Faulty logic Dec 29, 2007

Enrique wrote:

Failing to complete any of there fields could exclude you from a search if the outsourcer considered that particular fields important enough to include it in the search, but it would have no efect in the ranking among the translators included in the search criteria.




When the outsourcer is given the choice to include the allegedly encouraged criteria on the search, WE LOSE the choice on whether to use said fields because the risk of being excluded if we don't, WILL BE THERE.

"Encouraged" thus becomes COMPULSORY if we wish to have full opportunities, and it would be much more honest and respect-worthy of Proz to come out and state so openly.


Andrea


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 00:48
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
question of trust Dec 29, 2007

Among the barriers to any successful business relationship - no need, no hurry etc - "no trust" is the most important from my point of view. It's so difficult to cross that divide. And so darn easy to land on the dark side again.

Our clients are our assets. Our brain, experience etc is nothing without their trust. I'll welcome any move that helps me strengthen this relationship. And I'll clam up on anything, that may endanger it.

Maybe this off topic - but I just felt like telling how my coordinate system looks like.

Regards

Vito


Direct link Reply with quote
 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Encouraged/compulsory fields for outsourcers

Advanced search






TM-Town
Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business

Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.

More info »
SDL MultiTerm 2017
Guarantee a unified, consistent and high-quality translation with terminology software by the industry leaders.

SDL MultiTerm 2017 allows translators to create one central location to store and manage multilingual terminology, and with SDL MultiTerm Extract 2017 you can automatically create term lists from your existing documentation to save time.

More info »



All of ProZ.com
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs